HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-25-1995 DRB Minutes DESIGN REVIEW BOARD MINUTES - JULY 25, 1995
Members Present:
Cliff Chisholm
Kim Walker
John DeHaas
Ed McCrone
Walt Willet
Mara-Gai Katz
Paul Gleye
Staff Present:
Georgiann Youngstrom
Debbie Arkell
Lanette Windemaker
Patrict Morris
Dave Skelton
Visitors Present:
Dale Sweetser
Nick Salmon
Dick Pence
Craig McVicker
Cliff Chisholm introduced the new members of the Board, Walt Willet
and Paul Gleye. He reminded the Board of the orientation meeting
for new members which will be held Thursday, July 27, at 7 p.m. in
the conference room of the City Building. He also reminded them of
the meeting between the Board and the staff which will take place
on August 10 at 7 p.m. in the City Commission Room.
A. Consent Agenda
1. Hainsworth COA Z-9589
Cliff Chisholm removed himself from the Board as this project comes
from his office.
Kim Walker noted this item has been placed on the Consent Agenda.
No members of the Board requested that the item be removed. John
DeHaas moved, seconded by Mara-Gai Katz, to approve the Certificate
of Appropriateness application to install a new skylight in the
north elevation of an exiting home as presented in the application.
The motion carried by unanimous voice vote of the voting members .
2 . Paxton COA Z-9588
Cliff Chisholm noted this item has been placed on the Consent
Agenda. No members of the Board requested that the item be
removed. Kim Walker moved, seconded by John DeHaas, to approve the
Certificate of Appropriateness application for a 10, X 6 ' rear
mudroom addition. The motion carried by unanimous voice vote of
the members present.
B. Project Review
1. Sweetser-White COA with Deviation Z-9590
Planner Skelton reviewed the project. He noted that as part of the
Staff Summary Report he had attached a general architectural survey
of the neighborhood. He reviewed that in August of 1994 the
applicants had applied for a 2nd story to the existing residential
dwelling and when the Building Department determined that the
residence was not structurally sound and could not support this
application was withdrawn.
Planner Skelton stated that now the application is for a 6' porch
on the south and west side of an existing building in the
conservation overlay. He stated it will encroach 19 ' in the 25,
front yard set back so a deviation is requested. He then quoted
Sec. 18 . 50 . 060 .A of the Zoning Code to explain the deviation
required.
Planner Skelton stated that this north east neighborhood has a
great diversity in architectural forms . He pointed out that the
only obvious architectural element common in this proposed project
is the covered porches and that the project is similar to others in
the area.
Planner Skelton stated that there has been no public testimony
although both he and Historic Preservation Officer, Derek Strahn,
have some concern with the street scape. He then showed the Board
colored pictures of the mature ash tree and mature hedge that
provides screening. He stated that if it were not for the mature
hedge or the boulevard tree if loss to the street there would be no
buffer for the porch. He stated the porch will be 1' from the ash
tree trunk.
Planner Skelton stated that during the land use inventory evidence
of 3 ' high railing along perimeter of porches in the area and
suggest that the applicant consider placing a railing at the top.
Planner Skelton reviewed the staff conditions . One of the
conditions included submitting elevations showing the materials
used and the roof pitches to the Planning Office so there will be
a record in place should changes be done in the future.
Cliff Chisholm noted the procedure for the Board on what is done
after a staff report is presented. He stated that each Board
member is allowed to make comments so that all issues of concern
are presented. Clarification is then asked from the staff and
sometimes direct questions are given to applicants . He pointed out
that after a motion is brought any further discussion is directly
related to what the motion says .
Ed McCrone voiced concern about the mature tree and stated it would
be a shame to lose it. He pointed out from the report by Derek
Strahn that working on the porch will be a benefit for people in
the Career Transition Project. Planner Skelton added that Derek
Strahn is here to give more information on this low income housing
grant if the Board would like.
Cliff Chisholm invited Derek Strahn to briefly inform the Board
concerning this project.
Derek Strahn stated that the Preservation Board has two goals : 1)
to establish a low income grant fund in the overlay district in
which individuals and neighborhoods that might not be able to
afford it will be given financial help in up keep of homes; and 2)
to provide opportunity for women to work in construction. He
stated that the Board has two pilot projects this summer and the
present project will be #2 .
Cliff Chisholm asked what the supervision is on the job . Derek
Strahn stated that a contractor is on the site and that other
training is done by Career Transition so that there is in-house
education and on site training.
John DeHaas voiced concern about the intrusion into the front yard
set back and said is probably is not uncommon in older
neighborhoods . He questioned if the Board should recommend that
the porch be set back another 1' to give the tree 21 . He said he
didn' t want to lose the ash tree but wondered if the applicant
would consider reducing the porch by 1' . He said he would like to
see a compromise.
Cliff Chisholm noted that the front will be 6' from the property
line and 7' from the sidewalk. Planner Skelton stated that with
the mature vegetation on the property it is a very tight situation
to keep the overhang of the porch from the trunk and maintain the
branches higher than that of the overhang.
John DeHaas stated that is a valid point about the mature tree and
hedge and that he would like to be flexible enough to meet the
owners request but that a compromise is needed. He said the city
should see the positive aspects from the project .
Kim Walker stated she feels if the project is encroaching already
it might make little difference to the tree if the porch is only
1' or 2' away but will make a lot of difference to the porch. She
said she would like to see the deviation granted.
Walt Willet stated that the 6' doesn' t bother him as much as the
approach of the porch as it appears to be further into the front
yard set back. Planner Skelton confirmed that there will be two
steps to get into the porch. Walt Willet stated the steps will
start even closer to the porch. Planner Skelton stated that on the
south elevation it shows them protruding directly onto the street.
He said that it is not covered in the encroachment as the steps are
not covered with a post or cover. John DeHaas asked if it is
possible to recess the steps into the porch. Planner Skelton said
it is possible. John DeHaas pointed out that the two feet for the
two steps puts the encroachment from 19 , to 211 .
Paul Gleye stated that indeed the tree is important and that he
felt the Board could leave it to the staff to make sure the tree
remains . He stated that the railing above the porch the house
needs to be simple and not too ornate as the existing building is
simple otherwise it could make it overly cute.
Mara-Gai Katz stated that she generally supports the project. She
questioned how the porch would affect the root system of the tree.
She said she would like to see the Board' s recommendation to
include the 5' porch instead of the 6 ' porch to give the roots of
the tree more room. Kim Walker asked what the difference of 1' or
2' from the trunk would be. Mara-Gai Katz stated that old trees
have extensive root systems . Walt Willet asked if the foundation
would be post and beam or continuous . Planner Skelton replied that
it would be post and beam. Mara-Gai Katz questioned if the
foundations would be placed under the posts . Dale Sweetser stated
that the closest post is 4-5' from the tree.
Cliff Chisholm voiced concern over the vinyl siding that is being
requested. He stated that this has been discussed other times and
that he feels vinyl siding is very inferior material and that it
will be affected by the weather and the sun and that he would hate
to see it allowed in the historic district. He said a
recommendation for masonite siding or color lok should be required
so that it can be painted in the future whereas the vinyl siding
cannot .
Planner Skelton stated that looking at the architectural inventory
shows the various siding existing in the immediate neighborhood.
He said if the integrity of the original building had remained in
tact he would not have favored the vinyl but that integrity has
been compromised through exterior changes and alterations and
therefore the vinyl is acceptable.
Cliff Chisholm asked if there any other questions or requests for
the applicant. John DeHaas asked if the applicant will consider
sitting the steps back into the porch. Dale Sweetser stated that
there is one step into the home now and that it will be maintained.
He said there will not be two steps . John DeHaas stated that the
overhand of the porch can' t protect the step. Dale Sweetser stated
the tree starts at 7' but at the ceiling height the tree moves out
814" . John DeHaas asked how far the overhang was . Dale Sweetser
said that it will be the same as the house which is 12" .
Paul Gleye moved, seconded by Walt Willet, to recommend approval of
the Certificate of Appropriateness with Deviation with conditions
as outlined by staff with the modification to #2 that there will be
documentation stating that the mature tree will be preserved. The
motion carried with a unanimous voice vote of the members present.
2 . Food Coop MiSP Z-9585
Planner Morris reviewed the Minor Site Plan and Certificate of
Appropriateness application which consists of the relocation of an
existing historic residence and the expansion of an existing
parking lot. He stated that the deviation in the west side yard
set back is due to the placement of a cardboard bailer. He showed
the Board on the site plan where the cardboard bailer would be
placed.
Planner Morris stated that the staff finds the proposal outstanding
with the structure being relocated and that he had received no
public comment. He stated he recommend approval of the deviation.
Ed McCrone stated he basically is in support of the project. John
DeHaas stated he has no objection and that it is a reasonable
request for the cardboard bailer. Walt Willet stated he didn' t see
any problem.
Paul Gleye asked about the landscaping stating that he would like
to see more in this project. Planner Morris stated the landscaping
as proposed is only lacking one tree which will be put on the west
side of the site. He stated the DRB can require additional
landscaping in the Conservation Overlay District when they feel it
is appropriate to do so. Kim Walker stated that in the past the
Board has agreed with the staff on the amount of landscaping when
the project is excellent, as this one is . She said when the
project is lacking then the Board uses the landscaping as an off
set for the project.
Mara-Gai Katz stated she generally supports the application. Kim
Walker stated that she support it as well .
Kim Walker moved, seconded by John DeHaas , to recommend approval of
the deviation. The motion carried with a unanimous voice vote of
the members present.
3 . Morningstar COA with Deviation Z-9583
Planner Morris reviewed the proposed project. He stated that the
deviation is unusual in that the existing encroachment will be
reduced by 1' therefore, there is a gain in the set back instead of
a loss . He stated that the staff finds that the proposal is
superior to the existing covered porch and that it will match the
home to a greater degree than what is existing. He noted that the
proposal would have been placed on the consent agenda had it not
been for the deviation request.
Mara-Gai Katz stated that she fully supports the application. Paul
Gleye and John DeHaas agreed with her. Walt Willet stated he
thought it is an improvement. Ed McCrone stated that the applicant
should be commended.
The applicant stated that he realized he had left the skylights off
the proposal and questioned how it would be best to handle that.
Planner Morris stated that the applicant could get the information
on the skylights and bring it back to the DRB for review. Kim
Walker voiced concern about delaying the project for two weeks .
John DeHaas moved, seconded by Ed McCrone, to recommend approval of
the deviation with the added condition that the staff review the
proposed skylights . The motion carried by unanimous voice vote.
4 . Landon Industrial MaSP Z-9526
Planner Arkell reviewed the proposed project as a Major Site Plan
located in the I-90 Overlay District. She indicated it has three
street frontages, Raw Hide Way, Simmental Way, and Single Tree
Court.
Planner Arkell noted that although the zoning ordinance require a
setback on Raw Hide Way the plans do not show any. She has been in
contact with the applicant and they assure her they can change the
design to fit it in.
Planner Arkell related that the present proposed project had
already been reviewed by the Simmental Review Committee of the
subdivision in which this project will be located. She stated that
that committee had approved the plan.
Planner Arkell reviewed the 8 conditions recommended by staff for
this project . The conditions included areas of landscaping,
sidewalk on the north side, details of final lighting, bringing the
architecture into compliance with the I-90 Overlay requirements
which could be done by changing the pitch of the roof, breaking up
the south elevation by recessing three double overhead doors to
have a 25, loading zone which will only be allowed if using a small
van for unloading otherwise a 70, loading berth is required.
Kim Walker noted that on the south elevation the highlighted
pitches go high on the rear. She asked if there is anything in the
code about an unbroken 300, length. Planner Arkell stated the code
requires break up every 100, . She said it applies to the front and
east side of the building and it is questionable if it does not
apply on the back.
Planner Arkell continued reviewing the conditions . Other
conditions included no mechanical roof mounted gear is allowable
and ground mounted is only allowable if screened, signage showing
materials and colors are to be reviewed by the staff , and
landscaping is to be increased to include trees on all three street
frontages .
Planner Arkell stated that she had not received any comment from
the County Road Superintendent but indicated that if he says no
trees can be placed in the right-of-way, they should then be placed
in the yard setbacks near the property line.
Kim walker expressed concern with the roof line, especially with
the pitch, and noted that the east end of the building needs
further consideration and she is not sure a parapet will be
adequate. She noted the architect has a chance to create an
impressionable structure thru redesign. She noted enough changes
would have to be made to the elevations that she could not
recommend approval or denial at this time and suggested the project
be continued to allow the applicant to redesign.
Walt Willet disagreed with staff' s recommendation to continue the
parapet on the east and west ends , as they would contribute to the
length of the structure. He noted what is proposed breaks the
facade enough. He agreed an 8 : 12 pitch is needed over the entries,
adding he objects to phoney peaks like Wal-Marts, but noted these
gables serve a purpose, but they do need to be high to break the
visual line. He stated he would prefer adding peaks over the south
facade doors over recessing the overhead doors .
Paul G1eye stated the east and west elevations should be redesigned
to get rid of the false parapets and use the money allocated for
them to do a better design.
Mara-Gai Katz stated she is concerned with the roof articulation,
noting what is proposed is not adequate. She noted this has been
a, major issue in other projects and the Board should be consistent
in their reviews . She noted the front elevation with the gables is
not adequate and she is not comfortable with the direction of the
architecture of the structure. She stated the roof doesn' t have to
be pitched entirely but something needs to be done to adequately
break it up . She stated she is specifically concerned with the
north elevation, but her comments apply to the roof of the whole
building, so one doesn' t see the building as a flat expanse. She
suggested doing something similar to the new structures on East
Frontage Road.
Mara-Gai Katz asked if the applicant was aware of the informal
review process that is available so input can be given from the
Board to help with plans before coming for review. The applicant
stated that they were aware of the process , but were under the
assumption that if the Simmental Review Committee approved the plan
they would be in compliance. Mara-Gai Katz commented that the
informal review process is helpful . The Applicant stated he
appreciated that will consider it another time.
Kim Walker noted that it was a mistake of the designer to not
compare the two documents, as the landscaping is not even close to
what is required in the zoning code.
Walt Willet voiced concern about the rear loading areas wondering
if the recessed doors would cut into the square footage of the
building too much. The applicant stated that the insetting was due
to the 25' needed for the loading berth. He said they have given
some thought to the concern and realize there is an economic break
point where the cost is too much and if it doesn' t make sense to do
the project, it will not go forward.
The applicant stated that the design of the proposed project was
created to afford flexibility for possible tenants, as tenants are
not on line yet. He said where the truck doors are now on the
plans that a tenant may not need and so they may be moved.
Therefore, he said, the plan shows the flexibility and did not
presuppose where the doors would be. Mara-Gai Katz asked if he was
saying that the doors might not be there. The applicant said yes .
Planner Arkell asked for some clarification. She said if the lease
for a tenant is prepared before construction and does not need one
or more doors that the building would then not have the three doors
on the north elevation. The applicant said they desire to have
that element remain and those doors may satisfy second exit
requirements, so the north elevation would not change.
Walt Willet asked if the flexibility is for before the building is
built or after. The applicant stated that this style allows for
the flexibility to discuss the inset at a later date in order to
meet the loading depth requirement . John DeHaas asked if the
applicant realized that if there was a difference in building
design the change would come before the DRB again. The applicant
stated that he had no problem with that process . John DeHaas
stated that he just was making sure that the applicant knew that
when changes are made it isn' t affecting just the building for one
industry or one or two businesses but that it might change the
envelope of the building. He commented that any building change
except internally is to be looked at by DRB.
Kim Walker asked what the staff' s position is on the proposed
project. Planner Arkell stated she recommends approval with the
conditions as outlined, with any additions or changes the Board
agrees on.
Kim Walker noted that the project could be tabled by DRB if more
info or changes are needed. John DeHaas asked what the difference
between tabling it and recommending disapproval so that the
applicants brought it back at a later date. Kim Walker stated that
the difference is time constraints . Planner Arkell pointed out
that for a tabled item the applicant would have to get revised
plans to her by August 2 for the information to be put in the
packets for August 8 meeting. Kim Walker noted for the applicant
that they may risk denial without changes to the plans .
Kim Walker moved, seconded by Paul Gleye, to recommend approval
with the staff conditions with a modification to #4 that parapet
walls be changed to another treatment acceptable to staff and DRB
and the addition that DRB see any changes to the building and that
the applicant consider some articulation to the roof line to break
up the expanse.
Ed McCrone stated he was confused by the motion. The motion was
seconded by Paul Gleye so it could be discussed. Kim Walker
reviewed what the motion included. Mara-Gai Katz questioned if
that meant they could bring it back with no articulation changes .
Planner Arkell stated she understood the motion as recommending
approval with final site plan approval assuring the 8 conditions
were met and that the roof articulation was only a suggestion. She
said they could come back with the same articulation plan they have
now. Kim Walker asked if she could withdraw her motion. Planner
Arkell that she in fact could. Kim Walker withdrew the motion.
Kim Walker moved, seconded by John DeHaas , to table the review of
this project so the applicant can address issues raised by the
Board. Planner Arkell noted that the Board must make a decision
within 14 days of having tabled the project review. Kim Walker
stated the Board can ask permission from the applicant to table it
again the next time if necessary. Planner Arkell confirmed they
could or that the applicant could ask the Board to table it until
further notice. The motion carried by unanimous voice vote of the
members present.
Kim Walker reiterated for the applicant' s representative the issues
of concern to the Board as : consider articulation of the roof line
to break up the long- flat expanse, particularly the line of the
roof . She added that it appeared the Board members were in
agreement that all other staff recommended conditions were needed.
5. Main Mall ZCA Z-9572
Planner Arkell stated that this review is not to be voted on but to
receive input from the Board concerning this Zoning Code Amendment
as it will affect signage which they will be reviewing in the
future.
Planner Arkell reviewed present signage code which includes 400
square foot allowed for 1, 000 square foot building. In the case of
the Main Mall, she pointed out that with a multi- tenant building
having anchor tenants a larger treatment may not be as critical as
a multi- tenant area such as Albertson' s .
Planner Arkell shared several possible recommendations for changing
the signage requirements with the Board.
Ed McCrone stated that Planner Arkell I s point in her summary report
that the building itself is a sign was good and that another larger
sign would be counter productive. John DeHaas stated that the
change request is ridiculous and will make the whole building a
bill board. He said it seems we are going back to gigantic signs
after trying to eliminate gross signs .
Kim Walker asked if the Main Mall will be going through the review
process also . Planner Arkell said due to the road widening the
free standing sign at the mall will be coming down.
Planner Arkell stated that the key is not just how the signage will
affect the Main Mall but how it will affect the other multi- tenant
stores with over 100, 000 square feet of floor area.
Paul Gleye stated that it would help him to have a brief
calculation of what is non-conforming and other examples of what it
would look like when conforming. Planner Arkell stated that time
would not allow her to do that.
Kim Walker stated that it would be better to have more time to look
at the proposal . Planner Arkell stated that what the applicant is
proposing the staff can' t support and that more review time could
be beneficial .
C. Open & Continue to August 8, 1995
1. Best Western Sign COA Z-9587
Planner Skelton sent a memo to the Board members stating that the
applicant had asked that this item be opened and continued until
the next meeting.
2. Wong's Sign COA Z-9577
Planner Morris left a note indicating that the applicant desired
this item to be opened and continued until the next meeting.