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HomeMy WebLinkAbout4-16-07 Packet Item_March 22, 2007 Policy Meeting_3LINKED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION POLICY MEETING BOZEMAN, MONTANA March 22, 2007 ***************************** The Commission of the City of Bozeman met in the City Commission Meeting Room, 411 East Main, on Thursday, March 22, 2007, at 12:00 pm. Present were Mayor Jeff Krauss, Cr. Sean Becker, Cr. Jeff Rupp, Cr. Steve Kirchhoff, Planning Director Andy Epple, Assistant Planning Director Chris Saunders, Assistant City Attorney Tim Cooper, and Deputy City Clerk Cynthia Jordan Delaney. 0:23:14 A. Call to Order - 12:00 pm-1:30 pm - City Commission Meeting Room, City Hall, 411 East Main 0:23:19 B. Pledge of Allegiance and Moment of Silence 0:24:54 C. Public Comment 0:25:50 Michael Delaney - Public Comment Mr. Delaney, a real estate developer in Bozeman, wanted to let the Commission know what a resort license was. In 1998, he received a resort license for his property west of town, and it's a rare thing. Since then, the law was changed to no longer allow resorts within city limits or within five miles of the city limits. It is his opinion that one of the most important things to relax is to have more liquor licenses. Since October 2006, you can bring liquor licenses to Bozeman from Belgrade, and he thinks that's a good thing. Bozeman is the only city that possesses a resort license. It's no guarantee a resort will receive a license. 0:28:24 Mr. Delaney In response to a question, Mr. Delaney replied that there is a strong lobbying committee known as the Montana Tavern Owners' Association that worked to change the laws to keep resorts out of town. In a mixed use development, it hinders restaurants when they can't apply for liquor licenses. 0:30:04 D. Round Table Discussion 0:30:21 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff wanted to update the Mayor on the most peculiar that happened since he was on the Commission: the Commission made a motion on March 19 while the applicant wasn't in the room (and stormed out of a meeting). 0:31:02 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss stated that he has seen downtown developers stalking around throwing little temper tantrums before, but he has never seen one stomp out or shout. He stated that with tie breaking in the past, he was able to keep discussion going. It isn't acceptable for him to sit at home and then come in and make a vote. Several people have contacted me to offer public input, but the public hearing is closed. It doesn't make the public or him happy to not be able to consider public 7 comment. He thinks it is a flawed process. He might balk on Monday night and may ask Cr. Jacobson to re-open the public hearing. He anticipates having a discussion and asking questions of staff. He has significant issues with this hotel, not just design issues. He doesn't want to say no to all hotels being downtown. 0:34:26 Cr. Becker Cr. Becker stated that the Commission kept asking Tim Cooper, Assistant City Attorney, how to do this. He wanted to reconsider if they couldn't talk about it because they do need to have that discussion with all five Commission members. 0:34:40 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss stated that there are bigger issues than the developer stomping out. Even in the context of a yes or no vote, put something on the record that talks about what the Commission is trying to do downtown. He asked Andy Epple, Planning Director, to be prepared for questions at the next Commission meeting. 0:35:26 Andy Epple, Planning Director Mr. Epple asked if that will be true for the Kagy Gardens tie breaker as well. 0:35:30 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss stated that Kagy Gardens seems to be a different problem. He agreed that he has the same objection: could we have found something that works. 0:36:08 Cr. Becker Cr. Becker said that there were a couple things in that (March 19) meeting that seemed out of order--in terms of opening public comment over and over again, the developer standing up and interrupting us and adding another five minutes that became ten minutes. He was frustrated and didn't know how to handle that situation. 0:36:37 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss stated that he says, "Applicant, you have ten minutes." They don't get 30 or 40 minutes. We have a policy where we don't allow letters to be read. If you have letters, please distribute them here. 0:37:24 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff stated that Cr. Jacobson said she turned down his request to play a movie, and the compromise was reading the letters. 0:37:36 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss stated that was Cr. Jacobson's option. He said the Commission might want to make a rule that says no reading letters and no DVD's. 0:37:54 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp stated that the applicants have ten minutes, and they can do whatever they like. 2 8 0:38:20 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp stated that he has been corresponding with Debbie Arkell, Director of Public Service, about cameras on the lights (on traffic signals). He reiterated that this discussion and a resolution need to take place before they do the streets this summer. He wanted a timely answer about this issue. He also wanted an update on legal cases they've been briefed on in the past, especially Town Pump and Delaney. He wanted the upcoming agendas for the next two to three weeks so he knows what is coming up at the meetings. 0:40:43 E. Policy Discussion 0:40:51 Motion and Vote to authorize Cr. Jacobson's absence. It was moved by Cr. Kirchhoff, and seconded by Cr. Becker, to authorize Cr. Jacobson's absence from this meeting today. Those voting Aye being Crs. Kirchhoff, Becker, Rupp, and Mayor Krauss. Those voting No being none. The motion carried 4-0. 0:41:17 1. R-1 Zoning, Density and Accessory Dwelling Units (ADU’s) Planning Director and Acting City Manager Andy Epple presented the staff report about R-1 zoning and residential density. 0:46:47 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss stated that it establishes an entitlement there that says you can build on 5,000 square foot lots. 0:48:18 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple stated that outside of the restricted size lot requirement, 2/3 or 3/4 of lots are larger than 5,000 square feet. In the R-1 district, 10,000 square foot lots are very rare. 0:49:22 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple stated that a pending policy issue that pertains to R-1: the Workforce Housing Task Force is recommending significant further lot reduction to 3,000 square feet. 0:50:20 Cr. Becker Mr. Becker asked if in R-2 and R-3 zoning, you can build on a 3,000 square foot lot (It has to be an attached housing unit.). 0:51:28 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple stated that these numbers are minimums; there is no upper maximum for lot size. Another issue the Commission will be asked to think about from the Workforce Housing Task Force is a proposal to allow duplexes in all zoning districts. The Planning staff says there is nothing that says a city has to have 7 different residential zoning districts. With our support for mixed use and diversity of housing types, it leads to a concept that there just be an R district--residential (as long as the use is residential). That's how old Bozeman developed. In 1990, the GPA language was 3 9 progressive. Its over-riding philosophy was that "any use can be made compatible with any other use through a good design and review process." 0:56:47 Mr. Kirchhoff Mr. Kirchhoff stated that he thinks our codes are way out there; our land designers and our public are not. 0:56:52 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple stated that the two things people hate are sprawl and density. People don't want sprawl, but the antidote is density. "Not in my backyard" is a strong concept. 0:57:26 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp wanted to talk about the conflict between existing R-1 neighborhoods and greater density; new development slammed up against old neighborhoods. 0:58:49 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp asked if there is a way we can mandate when butting up against existing R-1's that we require that there be some minimum size of those lots next to those existing uses that more reflects a smoother transition. 0:59:56 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp stated that it wouldn't be subjective, but mandatory. If you are up against 1/4 size acre lots (existing R-1), it seems to be primarily a southern Bozeman issue with existing neighborhoods. He wanted to require better transition. 1:00:32 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff stated that he thinks it is zoning by complaint. 1:00:34 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp said that it is zoning by a value. He isn't doing it because the neighbors are complaining; he is doing it because he agrees with what they are putting forth. He thinks that that transition is how he'd like to see the city be. 1:00:47 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff said that he sees Cr. Rupp as joining the complainers. 1:00:57 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp replied that when you have lots around 10,000 square feet (or 1/4 acre) the complaints go away. Let's apply that same type of rationale around town. 1:01:23 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff said it is people living in medium-sized homes on medium-sized lots complaining that their neighbors will live in smaller-sized homes on smaller-sized lots. 1:01:34 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp stated that he wants to have this discussion about uses and transition. 4 10 1:01:42 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff said everything that the code has been doing for the last 20 years is contrary to what Cr. Rupp is suggesting. Cr. Rupp is trying to back the flow of all planning and land use ideas. 1:01:52 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp replied that it would not be for the whole piece of property, but a band around it, a transition zone. With R-1, there is conflict that comes with new development. 1:02:24 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple gave a quick example of where the Commission did that: Alder Creek along S 3rd. The multi-family part of the project was in the center of the project. 1:03:13 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff said it is pissing him off. People come to the public meeting and say that the smaller lots and smaller homes should be on the arterials where they belong. He doesn't find the notion acceptable that someone living in a slightly smaller house or lot than yours should therefore be in a shitty environment and farther away from you. He finds that is the tone and tenor of the complaints that you get from neighbors. 1:03:42 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp stated that he isn't here on behalf of a neighborhood. 1:03:47 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss stated that what we've had in Bozeman is exclusionary zoning (that "R-1 will be this"). He agreed with Cr. Rupp that the protection of our established neighborhoods is important to him. By just saying "R" as a zoning designation, the houses will all look the same, and they're mandating sameness by eliminating exclusionary zoning. He has decided that promoting density does not promote affordable housing. 1:08:08 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple said that the Planning Dept. would tend to disagree on that. He stated that where you get affordability is with attached housing of various types. 1:09:08 Mr. Kirchhoff Mr. Kirchhoff disagreed with Mr. Epple. He doesn't think that requiring density puts uniformity in the place of spontaneity or difference in variety. There is more variety of products in each subdivision. 1:11:02 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp stated that he isn't interested in redoing the whole R-1. He wants to have a discussion about buffering requirements mandating around the edge (the same way around the hospital). Promote density but recognize how important neighborhoods are. 1:11:38 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss said that where he and Cr. Rupp disconnect is that no one is going to have a development like that part of town anymore. By requiring diversity within each block, each block is the same. 5 11 1:15:33 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss asked that if it is worth buffering and worth saving, isn't it worth having more of? 1:15:38 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp replied yes (Cr. Kirchhoff said no). 1:16:41 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple stated that ADU's are not the source of a lot of housing enforcement issues; illegal apartment conversions are a huge issue. 1:22:40 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple explained where the six units per acre came from: it was six units per acre in old Bozeman. 1:24:02 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple said that six units per acre is a 7,200 square foot lot. Old Bozeman is working pretty well: people like the connectivity, mix, and vibrancy. 1:24:51 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss asked if old Bozeman is affordable. 1:24:56 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple replied that no, it isn't affordable. He thinks the highest priced real estate in Gallatin Valley per square foot is in the south side of Bozeman. 1:27:41 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss said that to him this discussion is about R-1. He stated that he heard from Planning is that they don't want any development with tree streets anymore. He thinks that limits diversity: to say that every subdivision is going to have these elements, and they are going to be dense. 1:28:38 Cr. Becker Cr. Becker stated that people with any sense to create a desirable product will make their neighborhood as unique as people. 1:29:11 Mayor Krauss Mayor Krauss said that to him this is a critical thing. If these neighborhoods are worth protecting and buffering and having, they are worth having and maybe having more of those neighborhoods. He said he wants that product, and people do, and they are commuting. Maybe density promoted condos. It certainly didn't promote single family homes being affordable. Why not reconsider this very strict minimum density requirement? He's reluctant to vote for R-1 for anything now. It isn't the R-1 from the past. He has no faith in R-1, seeing no difference between R-1 and R-2. 1:31:16 Cr. Kirchhoff Cr. Kirchhoff stated that their rhetoric is better than their logic. He doesn't mind protecting people's sense of their neighborhoods, but that doesn't mean he wants to bring on more of those neighborhoods. One of the reasons that they're thinking density is better: isn't it better to use land more wisely, think about water, etc.? 6 12 1:32:09 Cr. Rupp Cr. Rupp said he understands and embraces that completely, but he wishes the city would live by it, especially in the way it annexes property ("a hanging chad"). Have a discussion of drawing a line about where the city can go: for sprawl reduction and water conservation say no to people and say where the city can grow. 1:37:18 Public Comment Mayor Krauss asked if there was any public comment. There was none. 1:37:32 Mr. Saunders Mr. Saunders mentioned two critical sections of the code that drive the ordinance. Chapter 2 gives minimum standards. Chapter 14 lays out all zoning districts. 1:40:40 Mr. Epple Mr. Epple stated that he didn't think radical surgery was needed on the code, but more attention paid to issues of compatibility. 1:41:19 Mr. Saunders Mr. Saunders stated that the question of time and place comes up: neighborhoods change their circumstance over time. 1:45:31 F. FYI/Discussion 1:45:33 Susan Kozub - Public Comment Ms. Kozub, of Intrinsik Architecture who resides at 111 N Tracy, stated that it seems there is a disconnect happening in different zoning districts. Maybe the R zone would be a good idea to explore. Instead of going with a specific zoning district, it could be proportionate to the lot area. 1:46:48 Karen Semerau, Executive Assistant 1:47:17 G. Adjournment ______________________________________ Jeffrey K. Krauss, Mayor ATTEST: ______________________________________ Brit Fontenot, City Clerk PREPARED BY: ______________________________________ Cynthia Jordan Delaney, Deputy City Clerk Approved on ___________________________. 7 13