HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-15-12 Economic Development Council minutes
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City of Bozeman
Economic Development Council (EDC)
Meeting Minutes
November 15, 2012
9 am – 12 pm
Madison room, City Hall, 121 N. Rouse
Members Attending: Anders Lewendal (Contractor), Teresa McKnight, (Montana State
University Innovation Campus), Cheryl Ridgely (Bozeman Deaconess Hospital), Tracy Menuez
(Human Resource Development Council), Stuart Leidner (Prospera Business Network)
Members Absent: Daryl Schliem (Bozeman Chamber of Commerce), Deputy Mayor Jeff
Krauss (liaison)
Staff Present: Chris Kukulski (City Manager), Brit Fontenot (City Director of Economic
Development and Community Relations), Aimee Brunckhorst (Deputy City Clerk)
Guests / Public Present: Cyndy Andrus (Bozeman Commission), Chris Mehl (Bozeman
Commission) Rob Gilmore (Northern Rocky Mountain Economic Development District
Director)
NOTE: These minutes are not word for word and should be considered in addition to the
audio recording of the meeting.
A. Call to Order
Cheryl Ridgely called the meeting to order at 9:07 a.m. as the Chair and Vice-Chair were not
present. (Vice-chair Leidner joined the meeting later.)
B. Public Comment
Cheryl Ridgely opened public comment.
Seeing no public comment, Cheryl Ridgely closed public comment.
C. Minutes – October 18, 2012
This item was moved to a later time in the meeting when a quorum was present.
D. Non-Action Items
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Impact Fee Discussion (Fontenot, et al)
1. Impact Fee Update
2. October 8, 2012 City Commission Meeting Packet Materials: Impact Fee Study
Update (this document takes a few moments to load)
Mr. Fontenot explained that a few months ago a local developer came to Mr. Fontenot and said
he lacked information that he needed to tell a good story on why Bozeman is a competitive place
to do business. Mr. Fontenot and partners began the huge task of pulling this data together. Since
then it became evident to Mr. Fontenot that the Commission and Impact Fee Committee were
having policy discussions that have significant impacts on economic development strategy. Mr.
Fontenot has attempted to provide this Council and the Commission information to make good
policy decisions that are synchronized with each other and not at cross purposes. The Impact fee
discussion was planned to go before the Commission Nov. 26th but the date was recently moved
to December 10th. Mr. Fontenot would like to make it very clear that the work Mr. Fontenot and
Mr. Gilmore have been doing is not an effort to undermine the impact fee study or the
conclusions made by consultants, staff or the advisory committee. This is simply an effort to
provide the Commissioners with as much information and knowledge as they can to ensure the
impact fee policy and the economic development policy will work together for the same goals;
creating jobs and diversifying the economy.
Mr. Fontenot provided a brief recap of the last meeting saying there was an introduction of the
impact fee study followed by discussion and questions.
Mr. Fontenot referred to a draft discussion point document he provided to Committee members
prior to the meeting and reminded them that the document is just a draft and he would like to add
and revise as advised by the Council members. Mr. Fontenot explained this document is an
attempt to put the impact fee discussion into a broader context.
Rob Gilmore began introducing the discussion points on the document.
Document started 3 weeks ago
Focus on impact fees and how they impact economic development and broader decisions
the city has to make
Researched other communities: Statements, notes, disadvantages of fees
Broader sense of the impact fee issue and what other communities have done
There is not a standardized process for evaluating fees – community basis
Most cities with populations over 20,000 do collect fees for operations not just water and
sewer.
Trends for fees overall have fallen a bit in the last few years in response to downturn
No evidence to show that reduced or eliminated fees had any impact on building
economic development.
Bozeman has had a history of allocating costs to the users. Effective way to collect fees
Bozeman is an island in the greater market area - surrounded by areas that do not charge
fees. Fairly common in other areas as well
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Prevailing thought - typically the market will adjust itself through normal activities.
Some communities charge municipal fees on properties to offset this. Providing
municipal land at a discount – particularly for major sectors you are trying to attract.
Impact fees are a part of the landscape for communities of this size. Communities that
have tried to make an attempt to lower those fees have not necessarily achieved.
Recognition that fees can be a hurdle – needs a balance
Takes a study. What are investors doing? What will facilitate development? What fees
and structures are hurdles to development?
Recommendations were made in the document.
o Based upon advantage of having municipal property – Mandeville brought online
o Education of future investors showing short and long term investor advantages for
charging impact fees
o Perception that fees are out of the pocket. Advantages long term. Dependable,
infrastructure that can support your business.
Mr. Fontenot added this is an effort to explain by telling a story how the program adds
value to projects over the long term. Dependable infrastructure removes some of the risks
to development. The County may not have that dependability and strength in the
infrastructure. Need to provide people with the information to share the story that there is
value in impact fees to change the narrative from simply that impact fees are costly.
Ms. Ridgley asked that the Council look at the recommendations one on one and provide input.
Recommendation #1 – Recommendation to bring Mandeville online
Ms. Ridgely asked whether reduced impact fees or impact fee incentives with municipal owned
properties is the goal with this recommendation.
Mr. Gilmore explained that impact fees cannot be reduced, rather the property itself could be
offered at a lesser price to offset the fees.
Mr. Fontenot said this is similar to what they have been discussing for some time – leveraging
the property for infrastructure. The City does not have the money to put in the infrastructure –
how do we get it in while still trying to achieve established goals. Impact fees will be an issue
for the city on the Mandeville property. He spoke about targeting certain industries including
manufacturing that would benefit from a build out of the Mandeville property.
Ms. McKnight asked why Mandeville is specifically targeted when it is a municipal owned
property?
Mr. Fontenot explained that Mandeville is one of the highest priorities for the Commission.
Chris Mehl had confusion as to why all the other recommendations are broad except the first
recommendation which is specific to Mandeville. Commissioner Mehl said it would make more
sense to provide the background around impact fees first then move to concrete things like
Mandeville.
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Ms. McKnight feels the recommendations should be broader.
Mr. Kukulksi said Mandeville is not the only area in town we are trying to incentivize
investment. There are multiple areas that may broaden that, but he does not know if getting into
specific areas really fits into this document. Impact fees are separate issues.
Ms. Ridgely said that in this context of impact fees it comes across that we are going to do
something special with Mandeville as it relates to impact fees. That is a bit misleading.
Mr. Fontenot pointed out that the impact fees have yet to be established and what those fees end
up being will have an impact on how Mandeville farms is considered.
Ms. McKnight said she feels the Economic Development Council represents the community so
why would we place one project above another.
Mr. Lewendal said having discussion about whether impact fees damage or improve economic
development in our community. In respect to Mandeville, if you are suggesting we give land
away for $1 to get businesses to come here, is that what it takes to get businesses to come here?
If the prices are higher than outside and not willing to come down, are we driving economic
development outside? Do we have to discount properties significantly to get development in the
city? Mr. Lewendal referred to businesses that chose to develop outside the city and raised
questions as to why.
Mr. Leidner said the Council was tasked by the City Commission to look at and address the
Mandeville property as our #1 priority. Since the beginning, they have been charged with putting
work together and making recommendations for Mandeville. The city needs to make a decision
whether to bring this online or not. If there are not going to be conversations about financing
Mandeville and bringing that forward the city should sell and get out or invest and move this
forward. He referenced that the infrastructure was not there when BlackHawk and other
companies mentioned were looking for a location. What will the costs be to bring Mandeville
online?
Ms. Ridgely – If we are looking at recommendations regarding an approach going forward
towards impact fees, what are the implications that this is the #1 recommendation?
Mr. Fontenot explained there was not a particular ranking of the recommendations intended. He
said they can make this recommendation more generic. These are recommendations for
discussion. This is meant to raise these points for Council discussion and Commission
discussion.
Mr. Gilmore said the point was that impact fees and Mandeville are related because it is
municipal property and impact fees can be mitigated through the negotiation of the property.
Cr. Mehl said we want to go from broad to narrow in this discussion. We could also use general
fund money to incentivize something like manufacturing.
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Mr. Kukulski said to keep in context that the impact fee analysis is not the consultants telling us
what to charge with impact fees. They follow the letter of the law, etc. on what the impact fee
can be. Determining the fees is up to the City Commission.
Recommendation #2: preparation of educational materials
Mr. Fontenot explained this recommendation is due to an absence of a narrative regarding how
Bozeman’s impact fees relate to competitiveness, and how because we have impact fees, the city
can build the infrastructure those developers need.
Ms. McKnight referred to economics of scale of the city bonding and taking on the debt versus
an impact fee that has to be shared in your cost analysis of a business.
Cr. Mehl referred to a report previously prepared by the Finance Director regarding how much
we would have to raise general fund fees if we lowered impact fees.
Mr. Lewendal said that if Mr. Gilmore is suggesting that we educate future investors that impact
fees have short and long term advantages, then we should charge the full commercial rate for the
Mandeville land.
Mr. Gilmore said you can show that there are benefits to an impact fee model without taking
away the advantages of you want to incentivize. We can Show that there are economic
advantages of an impact fee model vs. taxation. We can show that there is an advantage of an
infrastructure that is in place, and has longevity and stability. Impact fee is the part of the fabric
for financing the infrastructure. A company that goes out of the city may need to have a well, a
septic system and have related problems. We need a way to compare one against the other.
Mr. Lewendal said we need to hear from the business community that there are advantages to
being charged impact fees. Right now that is subjective.
Mr. Gilmore spoke regarding the difficulty of articulating those advantages. The
recommendation is an attempt to quantify this.
Ms. Ridgely asked about this recommendation as it relates to the Economic Development Team
and there tools for communication.
Mr. Fontenot said this type of materials would provide staff that interacts with people the
knowledge to talk about impact fees in a broader context. Providing this documentation would
also expand our army of people that can speak intelligently about impact fees and the positive
effects to our community of having impact fees.
Ms. Ridgely pointed out the importance of staying positive with other entities that we collaborate
with. We want to be mindful not to be disparaging to the areas around us.
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Mr. Kukulski said to start with the question is not impact fees. The first question is whether
infrastructure is critical to business retention and recruitment. Intuitively the answer is yes, but to
be more deliberate about that. Impact fees are a funding mechanism. If you begin with the
critical need for the infrastructure and then follow up with how that is paid for the discussion
opens up. There is a stronger connection then, as to why the rate payer would pay the
maintenance and replacement costs and the impact fee would be set around the incremental
increase in demand on the system. We cannot repeat enough what impact fee funds are used for
and what they are not (and cannot) be used for.
Commissioner Mehl said he received a number of peer review literature from Tischler-Bise and
staff members McHarg and Saunders that indicated that impact fees are positive yet it is clear
that no one has articulated this very well. It seems like we will be swimming in anecdotes. There
is probably not a way to get a clear mathematical answer because every business is unique.
Should we just embrace the fact that it is complicated?
Mr. Saunders said you should never undersell something as simpler than it is. He is trying to put
some graphics together to do a better job of explaining how impact fees fit into the larger
question of funding infrastructure as a system. The reality is that a third of the various plants are
growth related, 2/3rds are paid for by the existing user. He spoke regarding the individual factors
in a city that drive the hardware needs of the plants and the needs for service. There are many
various complexities in every community.
Mr. Gilmore said this is a complex issue. There really is a baseline here and that is that the city
already charges fees. This discussion is not to question that but to look at it in the context of
economic development. We need to find middle ground so you are not discouraging businesses
but are also generating capital for the future.
Ms. Ridgely said the discussion is about two things. One is to have factual educational materials
explaining how the system works. The other is perceived advantages which will depend on the
investor or developer. There are a lot of misconceptions.
Mr. Kukulski said the Council is tasked with determining the impact of impact fees on economic
development which will drive which pieces are critical for the investment side or whether there
are sectors we should say other funding mechanisms should be looked at.
Mr. Fontenot said he would move from calling these recommendations to calling them
discussion points. We are really just trying to broaden the discussion. We do not have the
answers of what the impact fees should be.
Ms. Ridgley said when we started today; staff was looking for recommendations from the EDC
to take to the Commission. At what point is the Commission looking for more than discussions?
Mr. Fontenot said we can still move recommendations on to the Commission as part of the
broader packet.
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Recommendation #3: To suggest to the Commission that a discussion of what percentage of
the recommended fee should be charged?
Should this be at 100% or something less? Mr. Fontenot said there are examples on the exhibit of
local communities that charge less than 100% to lower the burden on some types of businesses.
Mr. Lewendal said the Commission wants to know from the EDC how much we value the
businesses in the city versus outside. Mr. Lewendal feels the EDC should recommend a
percentage. Do impact fees themselves drive businesses out?
Mr. Kukulski asked whether we are targeting anything or is all increased demands on the system
equally subsidized. For the sake of discussion we may not need to incentivize retail or
residential growth but may need to incentivize manufacturing. The business side is much more
complex. What does not get paid for by the impact fee is going to be picked up by the tax or the
rate payer.
Mr. Kukulski said that when transportation impact fees were reduced to 60% there was nothing
scientific about that. There was never a follow up discussion about where the difference would
be funded.
Mr. Lewendal spoke regarding who does pay that difference. He then said we want to bring in
growth, but maybe not at the expense of lower service.
Mr. Leidner referred to the exhibit and said these are the hard things that will educate the
discussion. We need to remove the anectdotal parts and get down to the numbers and the level of
service that the community is ready to accept and go from there.
Mr. Fontenot said another piece of why BlackHawk and Simms went out of town is that there
was nothing available within the city that met their needs. This brings us back to the Mandeville
discussion.
Mr. Leidner spoke regarding education, targeting and looking at hard numbers.
Mr. Fontenot said if we are planning on targeting, we need to make an effort to provide some
type of relief.
Chris Saunders spoke regarding the differences in the past methodology and the current proposed
methodology for water and sewer impact fees. The current methodology looks to consciously
split the water plant and distribution into separate components. The piece that varies by
individual project is the size of the parcel being developed upon. They would look at what the
total future service area is and what hardware will need to be put in to service the area. As a
project comes in, if you choose to use a more land efficient project, you will pay less. This
method is more sensitive to individual project decisions. More proportional to actual demand and
helps people see the more direct costs. The Trip Exchange District was based on a national
survey that looked at things like, “How do travel characteristics vary?” The survey looked at
downtown as a whole. Two things that are different in the proposal for trip exchange is that the
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proposed area is to be a slightly larger geographic area. Under the new structure if approved by
the Commission, everyone in the district would be applied equally and not specific to the type of
user as it has been in the past.
Council members continued to discuss level of service desired vs. charging impact fees at 100%
vs. incentivizing some desired businesses.
Mr. Kukulski said transportation is not as easy. The question becomes whether there are other
funding mechanisms besides impact fees and taxes. For example, transportation should be more
complex in its funding than it is.
Mr. Saunders said the Highway fund is bankrupt or will be shortly. Federal and state will not be
rescuing us with funding in the future as they have in the past.
Council members continued discussion.
Mr. Fontenot spoke regarding how on the whole, residential impact fees will be lower with
certain areas on the commercial side being higher.
Tracy Menuez joined the meeting at 10:36.
Mr. Kukulski said that if you get into picking sectors, have to raise the money some other way.
Mr. Lewendal asked whether it was worth asking the community about what level of service we
do want.
Responding to a question from Ms. Ridgley, Mr. Saunders said there are areas at risk from a
service delivery/infrastructure standpoint. Streets that have already reached substandard
condition are listed in the transportation report; in fact 6 to 8 are at that stage already. As far as
water and sewer, there are significant piping needs.
Mr. Fontenot brought up how risk is defined. Businesses that do not have what they need in the
ground and missed opportunities also present risk.
Mr. Saunders spoke about timing issues related to impact fees.
Mr. Fontenot said he would like the Council to simply consider the effects on your economic
development process simultaneously.
Warren Vaughn, a guest from the County joined the meeting at 10:45 p.m.
Ms. Ridgely asked whether there are other funding mechanisms.
Mr. Kukulski said there really is not any other for water, sewer and fire. The only other funding
mechanism for streets would be a regional gas tax the County Commission would have to
approve.
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Discussion occurred regarding the possibility of deferring impact fees until occupancy and what
advantage that might offer for developers.
Saunders: Asked investors: different types of home loans and percentage of down payment are
affected.
Mr. Fontenot and Mr. Saunders explained most developers have said it would be an advantage to
defer the impact fee cost until later in the project. This has been one of the strongest requests that
developers have made. Don’t have to carry it through the life of the project. There is a risk to the
city in doing this as well as services are needed prior to occupancy.
Ms Menuez said it could be a matter of the risk being shared more with the city. The risk to the
city is actually substantial.
Mr. Saunders spoke to the possibility of reasonable protections to guard against that risk.
Council members continued to discuss timing issues for paying impact fees.
Difference between residential and commercial?
Pay a percentage of impact fees at time of occupancy?
Recommendation #5 linked to #2:
Mr. Fontenot and Mr. Gilmore spoke regarding economic development being everyone’s
business and making education a priority.
Recommendation #6 Fee Schedules: Take a look at the fee schedules of other cities.
Ms. Ridgely felt the methodology was good. This is a good benchmark to look to see where we
are in comparison.
Mr. Gilmore explained the comparison attachment provided in the discussed document.
Ms. Ridgely spoke to the need to find out what funding sources other communities may have
found that charge low impact fees.
Focus on retail, commercial and industrial.
Mr. Gilmore spoke to the many variables that make impact fee comparisons difficult.
Mr. Leidner recommended simplifying the comparison document to provide a snapshot of one
type of business for discussion purposes.
Cyndy Andrus concurred that it would be helpful to parse out the different examples.
Further discussion occurred regarding interpreting the comparison attachment.
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Further discussion occurred about how comparisons need to take into account other expenses.
For example, a community that may have lower impact fees may have much larger property
taxes or much lower levels of service.
Mr. Fontenot spoke to adding #7 to the discussion point list:
#7 Targeting five specific sectors for impact fee relief.
Discussion occurred regarding whether it would be best to send these as discussion points or
recommendation points. How should the EDC weigh in on this?
Cyndy Andrus said if the Council felt comfortable making recommendations, it would be
helpful.
Mr. Fontenot and Mr. Gilmore will reword these recommendations as discussed and send them
out via e-mail to the Council for further comments and feedback. The Council can then take
action for a formal recommendation on the Dec. 6th meeting.
E. Minutes – October 18, 2012
The minutes of the October 18, 2012 EDC meeting were approved unanimously.
E. Action Item
1. EDC Appointment Recommendation to the Bozeman City Commission
Mr. Fontenot said there are four applicants for the current vacancy on the EDC and asked the
Council if they would like to forward a recommendation to the City Commission.
It was moved by Ms. McKnight, seconded by Stuart Leidner that the EDC forward the
name of Heather Bellamy for recommendation.
Discussion on the motion was concentrated upon what type of representative the Council may be
missing at this time.
Vote on the motion that the EDC forward the name of Heather Bellamy for
recommendation.
The motion failed.
It was moved by Tracy Menuez, seconded by Stuart Leidner to nominate Erik Garberg for
recommendation.
The motion passed unanimously.
F. FYI/Discussion
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1. Mr. Fontenot and Mr. Gilmore will refine the recommendations and circulate. Board
members will chime in over email and then vote on the recommendations at the next
meeting.
2. Cyndy Andrus said she appreciates the discussion today.
3. Ms. Brunckhorst explained that the city’s Economic Development page and the board
page were combined. She asked members to take a look at the economic development
page for suggestions to be emailed to her.
4. Need to look into whether Mr. Kukulski is an official board member.
G. Adjournment
Cheryl Ridgley adjourned the meeting at 12:09 p.m.
* NOTE – Full audio of this EDC meeting is available at:
http://weblink.bozeman.net/WebLink8/0/fol/46967/Row1.aspx
____________________________________
Cheryl Ridgely, Secretary
PREPARED BY:
____________________________________
Aimee Brunckhorst, Deputy City Clerk
Approved on:
Economic Development Council meetings are open to all members of the public. If you have a
disability that requires assistance, please contact our ADA Coordinator James Goehrung, at 582-
3232 (TDD 582-2301).