HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-08-05 Minutes, Study CommissionMINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE
CITY OF BOZEMAN, MONTANA
LOCAL GOVERNMENT STUDY COMMISSION
November 8, 2005
The Study Commission met in regular session in the Commission Room, Municipal Building, at 7:00 p.m.
on Tuesday, November 8, 2005. Present were Chair Loren Olsen, Marilou Turrentine, Brian Close, Bill
Hayward, and John Trull. Also present was Secretary of the Study Commission Celeste Janssen, facilitator
Jim Madden, and twelve citizens that were randomly chosen to be part of the Citizen Panel.
The meeting was called to order at 7:03 pm by Chair Loren Olsen.
Welcome
Loren Olsen thanked everyone for coming. He explained that Tracy Oulman is at another meeting
tonight. He explained the process of the citizen's panel. Chair Olsen gave a brief overview of the
Study Commission and then introduced Jim Madden. Mr. Olsen explained that this is a public meeting,
and it will be open to the public at the end of the meeting. In the public are Marsha Youngman and
Harold Fryslie.
Introductions
Jim Madden asked for introductions from everyone.
Judy lives in the Northwest Bozeman. She said is concerned about multi -housing going up in the area.
Sharon has lived at 1127 Cherry Drive for the past 25 years. She said she has seen many changes,
and recently seen the trend of many people using their houses as rentals, which she thinks is
undesirable.
Marty lives just west of South Third.
Curt lives at 516 South Willson.
Jean lives in what is now the "blighted area" and has lived there for 53 years.
Laura lives eight blocks away from the Municipal building. She said is honored to be invited.
Carol lives in the Hyalite Subdivision and she represents her neighborhood.
Kathleen has lived on South Third for 15 years.
Marilou Turrentine, John Trull, Celeste Janssen, Bill Hayward, and Brian Close briefly introduced
themselves.
Dan lives on Augusta Drive. He recently moved back to Bozeman after growing up here. He said he is
looking forward to learning more about Bozeman government.
Tom lives at 317 North Bozeman.
Steve lives near North Wallace, very close to the new "blighted area."
Loren Olsen and Jim Madden finished the introductions.
Pagel of 8
Overview of topics
Jim Madden explained that tonight's topic is effective representation. He introduced the ideas the
Study Commissioners are looking at:
• What form of government provides the most effective representation?
• What form of government provides the most effective leadership and management?
• How should the city commission be elected?
• How should the mayor be elected? Should there be a mayor?
• Campaign finance?
Jim Madden gave an explanation of the existing City Manager form of government, and the type of
election system Bozeman uses. Mr. Madden explained that the Study Commission has come to the
consensus that Bozeman has been well served by the current form of government. Mr. Madden noted
that before 1960 there was a ward system.
Jim Madden outlined the suggested focus of the meeting.
• Size of the Commission
• Election of commission (At -large, wards, ranked choice voting systems, etc)
Brian Close gave a brief overview of ranked choice voting.
• What role should a mayor serve in city government where executive authority is vested in city
manager? Should there be a mayor?
• Election of the mayor (present system, elected by commission, or directly elected)
• Campaign finance if there is time
Jim Madden explained that the Mayor fills five facilitative roles that offer enormous leadership
opportunities:
1. Coordinates actives of other officials and is liaison between city manager and
commission
2. Policy guidance by setting goals for commission
3. Builds consensus of commission to further policies
4. Chairs meetings
5. Ambassador to promote city to other government bodies and public.
Chris Saunders from the Bozeman Planning Department entered the room as a member of the public.
Panel Members Discuss Size of City Commission
Jim Madden asked everyone to give their opinion on the size of the City Commission.
Judy would like to see seven members as the population grows. She isn't sure when and she knows
there are pros and cons.
Sharon would like to see seven or nine commissioners because of the rate Bozeman is growing. She
doesn't think five can be as representative as a larger number.
Marty said it should go to seven commissioners. He is not sure about wards — he thinks the process
could be unruly, but ward elections would be nice.
Curtis said he thinks five commissioners is sufficient, feels good, and better representation. He
believes five operates better than a larger number.
Jean said five is plenty, but could see more commissioners later
Page 2 of 8
Laura said she agrees with Jean. Two more commissioners are reasons for more bickering. She
asked about Bozeman's move from three to five commissioners. Harold Fryslie answered that the
change was around 1970 and it was due to state code which called for the change when the population
exceeded 20,000. Bozeman did a special consensus just for the occasion.
Carol said five is more efficient.
Kathleen asked if there is law requiring another jump in commission size (the answer was no).
Kathleen went on to say that she believes five commissioners are sufficient. She wondered if
switching to ward system would be better when the population grows, because then there someone to
go to. She doesn't see wards as necessary at this point.
Sharon asked about what happens if everyone is not there. Brian Close answered that most decisions
are made by a quorum of three out of five, but some occasional decisions need a super majority.
Marty asked for clarification on the ward system. There was discussion on merits and problems with
the ward system.
Dan would like to see seven commissioners. He would rather see a proactive than reactive
government. Candidates running for election in a ward system would spend less and be able to go
door to door. He likes the ward system better, and he said that if a ward can't get someone to run then
shame on them because then they won't have representation.
Tom said that five is cleaner and efficient. He thinks that when the population grows, the commission
can get bigger. He also suggested a law that would regulate the number of commissioners that could
run from a certain area.
Steve is comfortable with five commissioners elected at -large. He is not sure if he would feel more
represented by two more commissioners, and he wonders about the ward system. Regarding the ward
system, he wonders where our commissioners come from. He said that although the ward system
could be problematic, it might force more diverse areas to be represented to some extent. Steve might
be tempted to run if there was no one else running from his ward. As for the number of
commissioners, he wants more justification as to why the benefit would good for the $10,000 expense.
He noted that there is one president that he doesn't feel represented by, and he isn't convinced that
seven or twelve would add representation.
Jim Madden recapped all the answers so far by saying there is merit in both. There is some feeling
that the numbers are related to the population.
Panel Members Discuss Election of the City Commission
Jim Madden asked for all Citizen Panel members to talk about how the commission is elected.
Judy doesn't know much about it, but likes the at -large election.
Sharon also would like to know where current commissioners are coming from. Marsha Youngman
answered that commissioners come almost entirely from the Southside. Sharon said that she is torn.
She would say that at -large elections probably work, but has trouble with the idea of only Southside
commissioners. She wonders if the North side would be "blighted" if they had someone to speak for
them.
Marty doesn't like the idea of ranked -choice voting because of the necessary two elections. Steve
corrected him — there would not need to be two elections. John Trull gave an overview of a ranked -
choice voting.
Page 3 of 8
Curtis said at -large elections work because they get the best talent Bozeman has to offer. He is
concerned about areas not being represented, but that might be outweighed by getting the best people
for the job. He said the ranked -choice voting works well and the only problem would be him trying to
figure out his ranking preference.
Jean doesn't have much to say on this topic.
Laura prefers the at -large elections.
Carol said at -large elections are more effective. She noted that the turn out for elections is low, and
thinks that turnout would be lower if people were asked to rank candidates in addition to simply voting
for them.
Kathleen said that at -large elections work well. She is interested in the concept of wards as the city
grows and hopes that people will come forward and be willing to represent their area. Given the
opportunity, she thinks other people might chip in.
Dan noted that Eric Henyon lives on the North side, not the South side. He suggested electing five
commissioners in a ward system and two at -large. That way Bozeman could get ward representation,
and extra qualified people could run as well. Kathleen, Sharon, and Steve like this idea.
Tom said the current way works, and Bozeman gets the people who are the most motivated. He thinks
Dan's is great idea, but the current way works.
Steve said that he understands the "best people in city" logic, but he still finds wards appealing. He
said maybe the combination is worthy of consideration.
Curtis doesn't think it gains are significant, and he doesn't see two more people better at tapping into
good representation. He said it would give the two extra people a chance.
Brian suggested having three larger wards, three at -large candidates, and a separately elected mayor.
He also suggested the British principal that says you don't have to live in the district to run there.
Curtis asked if it really makes sense to divide Bozeman up in different areas. What parts of the city are
different? How would the division work? Curtis said that if there is going to be wards, there should be
a rational way they are defined.
Steve answered that the Northwest part of the city does seem different, and they came together to fight
against the waste transfer site. He wonders if it the waste site would have gotten far it was planned for
the South side, or if there would be a blight area if there had been representation. He noted that there
is a neighborhood organization to represent them.
Bill Hayward informed the Citizen Panel of the Model City Charter's rationalization on the concept of
wards. When there are distinct neighborhoods varying by race, ethnics, income, and there would be no
representation otherwise. Brian Close added that wards would have to be equal in size, and therefore
would change every census. Brian thinks that with this community, has good data and could have
John Trull asked to hear more about the idea of limiting a certain number from of people from running if
they live in the same area. Carol said Bozeman could tackle that issue by having the remaining people
run for at -large seats. Kathleen wondered if people could handle constantly changing wards. Steve
said the school systems handled districts by having open enrollment.
Page 4 of 8
Steve forgot to weigh in on ranked -choice voting. He asked if anyone had voted on this system, and
Celeste Janssen answered that she had. He asked how it worked and if people were discouraged and
she answered that it was simple because of careful prep and practice votes. She also answered that
no one seemed discouraged, but the place was very different from Bozeman. He said RCV seems
simple and he likes it, but he would like to see it more on a state and national level.
Sharon said that RCV might be more rational, but thinks it might be more complicated than necessary.
Dan asked how the university is represented. Brian Close answered that anyone who lives in Bozeman
for thirty days can register to vote. Students vote in a very low rate, especially on local elections. There
is not a good process to clean up the voter records for people who move away.
Panel Members Discuss Mayoral Power and Election
Jim Madden asked for Citizen Panel members to discuss the mayoral position and election.
Kathleen said that it seems as if the mayor doesn't have a whole lot of power, and it is more of a
dignitary position. She doesn't know why they are being asked to talk about the role of the mayor
because the Study Commission isn't interested in giving up the City Manger form of government.
Kathleen said she would like the election to happen anyway except the way it currently works. She
said having the commission choose a strong leader would be more beneficial than the way it works
now, but as an individual, she would prefer to elect someone as a separate category. She thinks
Bozeman's current system is arbitrary.
Carol said that the top vote getter is the leader of the City Commission, and that needs to happen. She
said the mayor isn't necessary if there is a city manager. She wondered if the ceremonial aspects
would take up too much of a City Manager's time, and therefore there is merit in having a mayor.
Laura said she agrees with Kathleen. Our current system is like a popularity contest in high school,
and doesn't necessarily have credentials. She also sees the mayor as a figure head, like the Queen of
England, which isn't bad. She would want a mayor to be more politically involved than simply running
the meetings. She also wants the city commissioners to be involved, so she changed her mind.
Jean said that a mayor should be separate from the commission and the mayor should be elected by
the public.
Curtis suggested having a "commission chair" instead of mayor. The commission chair could even be
a rotating seat held by everyone. In terms of representation, he doesn't see that having a mayor is that
importation. Curtis supposed there is somewhat greater responsibility when directly elected. He said
our current system needs to be fixed.
Marty said if we are going to have a mayor, there must be a clear job description. He would like to
have the mayor elected by the commission, not our current system. Marty wouldn't like to eliminate the
mayor entirely because that would put too much work on the city manger. He suggested having the
mayor take on a few more responsibilities.
Sharon doesn't like the way it is done right now, and she said there is potential for disaster. The mayor
is a chairman of the commission and could still keep the same figurehead duties, and not interfere with
the city manager. It should be up to the commission to elect their own chair, because they have a
better understanding of each other.
Judy likes the idea of having a mayor for representation, and likes our current election system.
Steve would like to see the mayor selected from the commission. He sees that system running
Page 5 of 8
smoother. He sees how the City Manager is hired as a much bigger. He asked for Marsha to speak on
what it is like being the mayor.
Tom said our current system works okay. The top vote getter is the most popular and the person that
people seem to feel the most comfortable with. The mayor is a special dignitary or representative of
the community. He likes the having a city manager, someone who runs Bozeman like a business.
Tom's father was mayor of a small town. The part-time mayor job really wasn't part time, and he saw it
as a waste of all of their time.
Dan said he was torn. He sees the City Manager as the Director of Human Resources (who makes
sure things run smoothly) and the Mayor as the Director of Public Relations (who knows goals, can
work with entities). He can't imagine someone ascending to mayor without wanting to be mayor. He
would like the direct election of a mayor.
Because everyone had spoken on the subject, Jim Madden asked Commissioner Marsha Youngman to
speak to the subject. She said there are the beginnings of a job description for the mayor (list of
duties, required and optional). But the hard thing is that commissioners are paid $7500 and the mayor
$10,000 and that isn't much compared to the amount of work required. Everyone has six or seven
boards, sometimes as a voting member. As the mayor, she spent more time in contact with the public,
and the responsibilities are greater. She believes the mayor can shape the dialogue in community and
can pull people in who aren't being represented. Currently Bozeman has the accidental system.
Sometimes the winner wanted to be mayor but sometimes the person was everyone's third choice and
can run meetings but has no time and no way to facilitate complicated processes. Picking leadership
directly would lead to more consistent quality. She personally favors directly -elected mayor.
Kathleen asked if the mayor should be paid more, and Marsha Youngman said both the mayor and
commissioners should be paid more. The currently wage makes it hard for people to serve more than
one term. Loren Olsen cautioned not to get ahead of ourselves; this could be the difference between
the city manager versus mayoral form of governments.
Brian Close asked for a straw poll, assuming that the duties don't change. Curtis wants all the city
commissioners elected to be very involved. He needs some more definitions about job duties. The
straw poll will be taken assuming the job duties do not change from their current structure.
Number of commissioners (including the mayor) for the current population?
• Five commissioners (9 people)
• Seven commissioners (2 people)
Number of commissioners (including the mayor) when the population reaches 40,000?
• Five commissioners (4 votes)
• Seven commissioners (7 votes)
Chris from the Planning Department said Bozeman has a current population of about 33,000 (including
11,000 students at MSU). There has been an increase of about 2,300 people per year.
How the commission should be elected?
• At -large election (1 vote)
• Wards alone (No votes)
• Combination of ward and at -large (9 votes)
How the mayor should be elected?
• Current system (1 vote)
Page 6 of 8
• Directly elected by citizens (8 votes)
• Appointed by commission (2 votes)
(Sharon and Kathleen both like the last two)
Campaign Finance Discussion
Jim Madden gave a brief overview of campaign finance, PACs, and donation limits. John Trull said
PACs can only do issue advocacy ads and Brian Close disagreed. Jim Madden asked for comments
or suggestions on campaign finance
Judy passed.
Sharon said she doesn't know enough. She said that she knows that If you've got the money, you can
really hammer away, and not everyone has that kind of money.
Marty said he likes the way it is.
Curtis, Jean and Laura passed.
Carol said PACs have been a problem in past elections, and she has no idea if you constitutionally limit
what PACs spend, but she wonders if donations to PACs can be limited.
Kathleen doesn't think Bozeman has the authority to change state law. Brian Close explained what
self-governing powers meant, and he acknowledged that there are some legal issues we'd have to run
by Bozeman's City Attorney. Kathleen would like to see Bozeman look into limiting PAC funding.
Dan said the Bozeman Chronicle publishes contributions and keeps running totals. He wishes there
weren't totals, because it seems as if the paper is commenting on who is most popular by keeping
totals.
Tom would like to see it regulated, but thinks someone will always find a way around regulations
Steve agreed with Tom. He would like to see some limits and he said PACs are interesting because if
he supports the cause, it is easier to not criticize it.
Marty added that PACs are a free speech issue. Brian Close responded by saying the Supreme Court
is looking at PAC spending and he gave his opinion on the issue.
Recap highlights
Jim Madden recapped by saying there seems to be dissatisfaction with how the mayor is elected, and
most people think directly elected mayor is a better leader. Most people think five commissioners is
good, but see that as changing as Bozeman grows. There is big support for Dan's idea of having a
combination of wards and at -large election. There is also fuzziness around what the mayor is
supposed to be doing.
Next steps
Loren Olsen thanked everyone for coming and he introduced Chris Kukulski, who has just joined the
public. Chair Olsen invited everyone to a Study Commission meeting and he explained that the Study
Commission will write a report and put something on the ballot.
Evaluation
Jim Madden passed out evaluations to Citizen Panel members.
Page 7 of 8
Public comment
Chris from the Planning Department has worked under three city managers in Bozeman, all very
different and all trained professionals. He has come to an appreciation of the current system. The City
has three hundred employees, and has the very technical business of dealing with constitutional rights.
He noted that different skill sets are needed to run detailed operations. Most folks in the city like to
have a professional trained administrator, and the system is more efficient. The mayor would have to
retrain every election cycle.
Brian Close thanked everyone.
Kathleen asked where she could drop off the information and Loren Olsen suggested giving it to Robin
Sullivan.
Adjournment at 9:00 pm
There being no further business at this time, the meeting was adjourned by Chair Loren Olsen.
LOREN OLSEN, Chair
ATTEST:
CELESTE JANSSEN, Secretary of the Study Commission
Page 8 of 8