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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-20-06 Planning Board Minutes.doc MINUTES THE CITY OF BOZEMAN PLANNING BOARD COMMISSION MEETING ROOM, CITY HALL, 411 EAST MAIN STREET TUESDAY, JUNE 20, 2006 7:00 P.M. ITEM 1. CALL TO ORDER AND ATTENDANCE Planning Board President JP Pomnichowski announced that only four of nine members were present and therefore they don’t have enough for a quorum. President Pomnichowski stated that since this was a pre-application process which did not require a formal vote, that the application would be heard at this time. President Pomnichowski then called the meeting to order at 7:08 p.m. and directed the recording secretary to note attendance. She asked for staff to please step forward at this time concerning the Allison Subdivision Pre-Application. Planning Board Members Present Staff Members Present JP Pomnichowski Chris Saunders, Assistant Director, Planning and Dave Jarrett Community Development Steve Kirchhoff Kelly Marple, Recording Secretary Visitors Present Mike Jarrett Susan Bolgrano Rick Mees Eugen Graf Ed Sonano Ted Lange, Gallatin Valley Land Trust Ray Center Gene Graf ITEM 2. PUBLIC COMMENT (0-15 MINUTES) {Limited to any public matter within the jurisdiction of the Planning Board and not scheduled on this agenda. Three-minute time limit per speaker.} There was no public comment. ITEM 3. MINUTES OF MAY 16th, 2006 No comment due to lack of sufficient amount of members. ITEM 4. PROJECT REVIEW Allison Subdivision Pre-Application #P-06027 A Major Subdivision Pre-Application requested by applicant and property owners, Bon Ton Inc. of Billings, to allow the subdivision of 100.82 acres into 278 single household, 7 multi-household, and 62 townhouse lots and 5 lots of dedicated park/open space areas on property legally described as Track A, Allison Subdivision, Phase 2 + SE ¼ NW ¼, Sec. 24 COS #252 + COS #792, T2S, R5E, City of Bozeman, Gallatin County, Montana. Assistant Planning Director Chris Saunders indicated on maps where subdivision will be located and stated that the area as a whole is seeing development. Mr. Saunders stated that everyone should have received copies of comments from the Development Review Committee by this time. Mr. Saunders then stated that the applicants are proposing a large park in one corner and that there are currently no parks on the south side of town. He noted that there were four significant topics from the planning board including cul-de-sacs and the allocation and layout of park land. Mr. Saunders explained that currently the property is zoned for single homes only, and that discussion for possible rezoning is underway. He noted that the way this development depicted currently is not in excess of two-unit configurations. Mr. Saunders then concluded by saying that members present should have had comments forwarded to them from Ted Lange with Gallatin Valley Land Trust regarding the trails. President Pomnichowski then asked if there were questions of staff at this time. Steve Kirchhoff made a statement directed to Chris Saunders indicating that he realizes it is not Mr. Saunder’s project, and therefore it was hard to go over all the details since there were 50 or more technical items listed in the preliminary staff report, and he stated that since the items are pointed out by staff, he thinks they will be worked out between staff and applicant. Mr. Kirchhoff stated that he believed there were five major points which summarized the items – vehicle/pedestrian connectivity, park land, cul-de-sacs, the R1/R3 mix, and the location of sell lots. Assistant Planning Director Saunders responded that if anyone believes that there is anything that is more specifically worthy of discussion, they are welcome to raise them and that at this time a lot of individual pieces are either FYI or will have to come back as a variance request, and they can consider all the details at that time. He also stated that the pre-application process is to identify areas of concern. Mr. Kirchhoff asked if the interior streets where they intersect at 11th are a concern because of the way the alleys scoop in from one lot depth. He also queried Director Saunders if that was the issue they were talking about at this time. Mr. Saunders responded that South 11th is a collector street and in order for traffic to move reasonably on a local street within a highly interconnected area, they will need to have streets designated for moving traffic. He also said that one way to deal with this is to rotate the entire subdivision so that the alleys went north and south, and that this would take substantial redesign of this development. President Pomnichowski raised a question concerning park land. She stated that she had read that there were 11.46 acres required, and 7.4 net park area. Mr. Saunders responded that there were some previous acres allocated. President Pomnichowski then expressed concern about trail construction cost counting toward park land and stated that in one of the reports, the terms park land and open space were being used interchangeably and that they are, of course, not interchangeable. She then asked staff if they believed that park land allocation and the open space requirement are being met. Mr. Saunders responded that the construction cost in locations where there is a water course and trails required setbacks, and they don’t necessarily want all setbacks to be designated as a park. He added that the value of the trail is explicitly in the ordinance, and an option is to have the value of that trail offset park land requirements President Pomnichowski then asked why the alleys are not parallel to the streets and why are they perpendicular one lot within. Mr. Saunders responded that as of now the blocks are oriented east-west, and if they have an alley down the center, when that alley intersects on South 11th Avenue, it would cause a series of interruptions that are substantially less than the required separation standards for collector streets, and it is an attempt to comply with the plan. President Pomnichowski expressed concern about access where turns are more than 190 degrees and wondered if will fire trucks or garbage trucks were going to be able to negotiate those corners. Chris Saunders responded that they have the engineers provide the turning radius of certain vehicles, then they take that and overlay it on the map and see if it works or not. Steve Kirchhoff declared that it seems odd that South 11th gives views of end lots rather than seeing the length of the block, which is more typical and he gave Willson as an example. Mr. Kirchhoff also stated that he thinks that the cul-de-sacs should be eliminated on the south end and that he doesn’t see the need for them. He also thinks that the problems with the code are design issues which are the result of choices and that the layout of the subdivision has created problems. He said that the 20-20 and UDO adopted the notion not to have cul-de-sacs unless completely necessary, and that he would like the necessity for cul-de-sacs to be explained. President Pomnichowski stated that she does like the cul-de-sacs on the north end, but agreed that the ones to the south serve a purpose only for this parcel but not for connectivity to the greater southwest portion of the city. She said she would prefer to see 12th and 14th go through and some consistency with blocks 17, 18 and 19 with the remainder of the development. Steve Kirchhoff said that some of them might be arguable and that further to the south at Alder Creek there is not a chance of 12th connecting and that we need to hear back from the applicant about some of these choices and if they make sense or not. Dave Jarrett stated for the record that he has a conflict because his wife is one of the owners of Bon Ton, Inc., so he won’t be making comments or voting on this application. Steve Kirchhoff stated that he might have an issue with the allocation of the RSL lots. President Pomnichowski said that she thinks the distribution on this development is better than many she has seen and that this is fairly well integrated for a generous third and even almost a half of the development. Steve Kirchhoff then added that the proposed rezone from R1 to R3 needs to be discussed. Chris Saunders showed area on map where multi-home development was in the near vicinity of this project and where open space needs to be considered. Mr. Kirchhoff acknowledged that this is R3 with lots from 4,000 to almost 6,800 square feet, and asked how many units would that mean in an R3. Mr. Saunders said that it is about 10 units an acre, but you can squeeze in 14. Mr. Saunders said that the configuration was not wide enough to put in four-plex townhomes, only duplexes or triplexes. Steve Kirchhoff noted that he doesn’t have a problem with a mix of R1 and R3. He then raised the question of subdivision design in terms of vehicular and pedestrian connectivity, and gave Cattail Creek, West Winds, Baxter Meadows and Valley West as examples of places that provide a nice strong corridor for pedestrians to get from an amenity on one side to an amenity on the other. He thinks that that is the case here since the Galligator is on the east and the park is on the west and it would be wonderful to have a strong pedestrian corridor. Mr. Kirchhoff added that he thinks that walkways would make people healthier because even when people don’t like to walk, they will walk if they have a trail near them. Chris Saunders asked if Mr. Kirchhoff was specifically commenting on east-west. Mr. Kirchhoff agreed that yes, he was talking about Galligator to the park. President Pomnichowski then requested that the applicant please come forward. Ray Center, 1700 W. Koch Street, #7, of Rocky Mountains Engineers came forward and stated that in regard to the drawing, it was the result of 10 to 15 different lot layouts and that they looked at having more streets in the north-south direction. Mr. Center said that the problem they ran into was that 11th was originally supposed to go straight through, but because it is on a diagonal, the west side of 11th creates a triangle and thereby loses a lot of efficient use of the ground. He stated that they were trying to make as many lots (and many are relatively small) affordable and make an affordable community. Mr. Center said that because of the diagonal line to 11th, they ended up with the east-west street layout. He noted that in regard to access from Galligator to the park, they are proposing to add 10 feet to that right of way width to allow a pedestrian path to be added to the south end of the street and create a much wider avenue to the park to have better access from east-west to the park. President Pomnichowski asked if that is how this is platted and if Arnold Street is 70 feet wide until 11th and then it is 50 feet wide to the park. Mr. Saunders responded that they would look into the 20 feet. President Pomnichowski asked if the 10 foot walkway would be on the south side, to which Mr. Center responded yes, they would be taking 50 feet of the 70 feet total width, and they would only have to grant 20 feet. Ray Center added that it seemed to be the best way, and that they had tried to come up with other options, but none were logical. Mr. Center also asserted that the cul-de-sac layout allowed them to take up the slack of an unusable strip of lot. He also said that the homes would abut similar homes at Alder Creek, so home values would be similar and that every north-south street that dead-ends into the property would be continued. Mr. Center then stated that as far as the RSL layout and the 50 x 100 lots, they may as well take advantage of the 100 foot depth, then other lots would be longer to take up the difference. Steve Kirchhoff asked Mr. Center about the area by the park and the southwest corner where South 14th and 15th go north to the park, and wondered if it would be more advantageous to have the homes fronting on the park. Mr. Center responded that if they rotated around and did as Mr. Kirchhoff suggested, they would have to make fewer lots and that they would end up with excess when you get down to Graf Street. Mr. Center also stated that they would end up with much longer lots on the north section if they did it that way. President Pomnichowski said it looks as though it could extend to the north if there were a right of way which would basically take off the western edge of the park. Mr. Center said that they did it this way so they could have the park here as large as Rose Park or even larger, he added that Vollmer Street could extend to the west and this development could add land to the west. Chris Saunders added that 15th is a local street only on the north side of town and once you get to Main Street it is a collector street, so they are not as concerned with having street connectivity. Mr. Kirchhoff asked how far it is from the west edge of this development to 19th. Mr. Saunders responded that it was about a quarter mile. President Pomnichowski asked Mr. Center if he knew how wide Vollmer, Berg, Spain and Graf Streets are. Mr. Center replied that he did not know exactly, but that they are planning on 35 feet which is the widest regulation street. Mr. Center also said that it varies and that the idea is that it would align and blend in with the subdivision. Gene Graf with Bon Ton, Inc. asked to be recognized at this time. Mr. Graf said that some of the constraints they worked with were the spacing of the streets and that one of the things they tried to design was for the park to have access and that it would not be surrounded by speeding traffic, as well as not encourage a lot of use on Arnold Street. Mr. Graf said that he thinks with Graf Street and Vollmer there is enough east-west connectivity and that one of the things they hoped for was to maintain an east-west configuration because it has so many solar conditions. Mr. Graf also noted that he thinks Ray Center is confident that the turning radiuses are appropriate. Steve Kirchhoff then asked if they had ever considered putting pork chops at the end of the alleys. Mr. Saunders replied that it was possible, but added that getting out on 19th from the pork chop near Johnny Corrino’s, was presently very difficult for drivers and he doesn’t know if they want to design the entire development because of that. Mr. Saunders noted that volumes and speeds are lower when turning out from individual properties. Mr. Kirchhoff then stated that where the alleys enter and exit, the distance is one lot width or 70 feet usually from the stop sign that you will encounter to get onto 11th, and asked if this layout is a problem. Chris Saunders asked which bullet point Mr. Kirchhoff was referring to. Mr. Kirchhoff said he would find it later and ask at that time. Gene Graf stated that the overall plan for this was to have smaller lots and that they had not gotten them all as small as they wanted because of the road constrictions, he added that they won’t know until they get costs in line and that they would like to get 20% of the land and improvements and that they hope to keep that down considerably and find a niche. Mr. Graf also stated that trails value will also be enhanced. Mr. Ray Center interjected that the reasoning behind not having so many lots fronting on Graf or 11th - and also the difference between Willson Avenue and this subdivision - is that on Willson there are more people that are beyond their child-rearing years and can afford the homes on South Willson, and that this is going to be a subdivision with families and young children and they don’t want potential child-traffic conflicts. Mr. Center added that this lot layout seemed to be safer than having all the lots fronting on Graf and fronting on 11th. Steve Kirchhoff asked if he could further discuss the safety of children and pedestrian and stated that there is a shared-use path on South 11th on the east side before you get into this subdivision, and he asked the applicant if they were planning to continue that path in this neighborhood. Mr. Graf declared that he thinks there are bike lanes on 11th and Alder Creek. Chris Saunders stated the section on 11th was built with a shared path because it is safer to have the on-street bike lane instead of having a vehicle doing 20-30 miles per hour alongside pedestrians. Steve Kirchhoff said that it looks like Vollmer will be a logical pedestrian access route to the school and he asked the applicant if they had considered curb bulbs to pinch down the driving lanes a couple feet on Vollmer Street at the intersection of Spring Ridge and 11th and again at Keaton Street. Ray Center responded that they hadn’t discussed curb bulbs. President Pomnichowski asked if they had the recommendations from GVLT. Gene responded yes, and that CAHAB had a resolution approving the concept last week. Steve Kirchhoff stated that since there were only two people at the meeting tonight to talk about these issues that it makes it difficult to discuss. Gene Grad stated that so far this project has been favorably commented on at other meetings they have attended. Ray Center added that the parks being expanded were especially met with positive feedback. Mr. Kirchhoff asked if they were going to show improvements to the park to which Mr. Saunders responded the exact final outcome for the park is unknown, but that some problematic discussion should occur. Mr. Center interjected that they have gotten their lot layout to the designers who liked the idea of extending the park land to the west, so they will be coordinating with them as part of this process. President Pomnichowski asked for public comment at this time. Ted Lange, 2807 Westridge Drive, of Gallatin Valley Land Trust handed out maps to the committee and stated that he lives close to this development and his main purpose for creating the map is to show the big picture and to show the keystone situation of this subdivision in relation to many pretty significant destinations such as Sacagawea, Morningstar, Museum of the Rockies, MSU and the new park. Mr. Lange directed his comment to the developers saying that he really likes the location of the park and would like to see it expanded. Mr. Lange said that he has several recommendations about 10 foot shared paths and that he doubts that those are realistic. Mr. Lange said that 11th is his lowest priority because it would be used by college students and faculty and staff all whom are adults and therefore should be able to handle a bike lane. He said that he would like to highlight Graf and pointed out the potential future high school location on his map and queried whether this is a shared use path or design because his goal was to ensure that Graf make sense in the future. He said that making Graf as safe as possible for pedestrians is his aim whether it be by the use of curb bulbs or a shared-use path. Mr. Lange said that he would then like to consider Galligator Trail, and that mid-block crossing at Arnold and mid-block crossings at Graf have the potential to be made safe by using a number of design considerations. Mr. Lange stated that curb bulbs can be a pain for snow removal if they aren’t designed properly and that there are designs out there that can work well, he also suggested that a sophisticated speed bump called a speed table which is about 20 or 30 feet wide could also be used on Graf if they think it will be a very busy street. Mr. Lange then pointed to an area on the map where a green space trail connector could be used to connect an already existing trail, and also pointed out an area where the trail on south side is three feet from the ditch, and since there will be a big buffer, some trees in between ditch and path would be nice since this trail will be used a lot by kids. Dave Jarrett stated that he rides his bicycle two days a weeks very early in the morning and has come in conflict with the curb bulbs because he has to detour around the bulbs and this could be dangerous when a car is coming up behind him and he is swerving out to avoid the bulbs. Mr. Jarrett added that he likes the locations where there is a dedicated bike lane and no curb bulbs. Mr. Ted Lange agreed with Mr. Jarrett and noted that there is no on-street parking on South Third, and where there is on-street parking the curb bulb is hidden. Mr. Lange added that he was limiting his suggestion for curb bulbs only to areas where there is on-street parking. Gene Graf then dismissed himself from the meeting for a prior commitment. Rick Mees of 704 Arnold asked to be recognized. He began by stating that he is representing people, not developments or organizations. Mr. Mees said that he rides his bicycle every day and uses the trail every day except in the winter when it is impassable, and he knows the area quite well, therefore he likes the idea of putting in curbs because he thinks it works in slowing people down, especially paths to school because there will be more speed on Arnold. Mr. Mees then stated his concern about multiple family housing along the corridor because he has watched the water this year, and since it is a dry year in the valley, he thinks the lack of absorption that has come from the upstream area that has caused an increased flow into drainage rather than absorbing down to street, houses, and other impermeable surfaces. Therefore, he was wondering if there would be a problem with this multiple family housing which will make more impermeable surface immediately adjacent to an area where it could use more absorption to keep that flow out because there have been problems with that this year. Mr. Mees also stated that if these are larger units, such as eight-plexes adjacent to the open space, it would be a concern. Mr. Mees added that he also did not like the bulbs as a bicyclist. Mr. Mees then raised a question regarding putting high-density along open space, and if lots would be more valuable in open space rather than on the busier streets, the intention is to have higher density making it more affordable. Mr. Mees then brought up the park in the northwest corner and asked if a regional park was really going to be built and if there are any guarantees that it will be built. He then brought up the alley corner issue and stated that when he was on the north side of town near College Street he had a corner alley, and that his fence was knocked down by the garbage truck that couldn’t make the corner, and he asked if this had been considered at the subdivision. Mr. Eugen Graf responded to Mr. Mees and stated that they had talked to Allied and the alleyways are sufficient. Mr. Mees stated that he thinks the city is not going to use the alley for the purpose it was intended, and that would be a concern. He said that his main concern was whether the development of higher density is going to interfere, and if the less permeable nature that the higher density creates was going to exacerbate a problem because of the increase in moisture. President and Chairwoman Pomnishowski asked for further public comment. Ray Center asked if he could make a few response comments at this time. He stated that they have made the alleys 25 feet wide, and a typical city street has a 15 foot radius, and that these are 25 feet radiuses. He stated that they are aware of potential problems, and he agreed with Mr. Mees about the water coming down off the houses and streets being a potential problem. President Pomnichowski asked that discussion return to the board at this time. She stated that she is encouraged that the landowner to the west is working to adjoin the park land, and asked the applicant if there be a flood plain delineation done, to which Mr. Center answered yes. She then asked if a wetland delineation will be done and Mr. Center answered that there has been a FEMA study. President Pomnichowski stated that she did not think the FEMA study would be enough, and more than half of block 16 and lot 14 is roughly shown to be crossed by flood plain, and if there are higher velocities coming down the creek. She states that she would like to see some soil samples, and if ground water levels would prohibit safe crawlspaces and basements, she would like a plat notation on it. President Pomnichowski then brought up 310 and 404 permits. Ray Center responded that they don’t necessarily need those because there is no water right, and it is an intermittent creek. President Pomnichowski asked if they would look into whether they needed 310 and 404 permits, Mr. Center agreed that they would. President Pomnichowski then stated that the trail can’t be that close to a watercourse, it has to be on the outside 40% of the 50 foot setback, so she would like to see in the application the trail placed in the farthest 40%. She then brought up the two irrigation ditches and asked if the applicant has talked to the farmer’s canal company or the ditch company about jurisdiction or piping. Mr. Saunders replied that they had spoken to MSU to make sure they get it right. President Pomnichowski asked if MSU has the authority to authorize that and Mr. Saunders said that more work would be done on this issue. Eugen Graf stated that they are going to put it into a tube, and that they have to guarantee that the same amount of water that starts on their property leaves their property. Mr. Saunders added that as a general rule, most irrigators prefer ditches to be tubed because it simplifies their maintenance. President Pomnichowski then asked about traffic control at South 11th and Graf and South 11th and Arnold and what has been proposed. Ray Center responded that they are having a traffic study prepared at this time. President Pomnichowski then raised a question regarding the alignment of Graf, particularly in light of the map that Ted Lange provided, she wants to know why the roads don’t continue straight through. Ray Center stated that if they continued straight through they would have a few very large lots, and that it doesn’t work for any lot configuration other than half acre lots. President Pomnichowski then expressed her concern over connectivity, to which Mr. Center replied that they have been working with staff through the DRC on this exact issue, and that staff didn’t have a problem with this Graf not aligning exactly. President Pomnichowski then asked that everyone now recap the five points that this discussion was originally about. She stated that park land seems to be met with previous allotments, and that she also doesn’t mind the R3 zoning in the northeast, and that she thinks it’s a nice treatment along the trail, and that the green space acts as a nice buffer, better than most that they usually see along R3, so the shared-wall townhomes along that street she thinks are fine. President Pomnichowski said that she does have concerns about deviations requested as a preference for the design of the subdivision instead of the physical restrictions because deviations require the greatest measure of hardship, and she doesn’t think that applicant has proven a hardship for street offset. Ray Center asked for location in paperwork where she was referring. President Pomnichowski then realized that this issue has been discussed earlier, therefore did not need to be discussed further at this time. She said that she still has a problem with the alleyways because it is not 25 feet of passable street, she is looking to staff in this issue, and looking for alternatives. President Pomnichowski stated that RSL lots are fine, and she supports the waiver to the neighborhood center from being 600 feet from the geographic center for where the park is, especially because their neighbor to the west is willing to work with the space. She said that she would be interested to see other lot layouts because she thinks it is a more logical north-south arrangement rather than east-west. President Pomnichowski added that as a pre-application she would encourage them to get more information on the floor plain delineation, some of the traffic connectivity, the traffic management at South 11th and Graf and South 11th and Arnold, and that she assumes that they will see a preliminary subdivision application from them following this pre-application, and to please consider these comments. Steve Kirchhoff said that he was glad to hear the rationale for some of the concerns he had and is still looking to see some adaptations to some of these blocks, but everything I’ve heard from Ray Center has made sense to him and he is interested in another configuration that would have worked. Mr. Kirchhoff added that their overall concept of who this neighborhood is for is nice because is targeted to people with more reasonable means. Chris Saunders then said he would like to answer a few of the questions and comments raised, and that the curve shown on Graf where you don’t have a continuous division does tend to slow drivers down. Mr. Saunders added that they do have a number of speed tables in town currently functioning, such as the one at North 23rd, and that they do provide an opportunity for bicyclists to stay in the bike lane. He then stated that in regards to the rate that the water is released off of the land, there is a greater portion that is not soaking in, and that there has been an increasing amount of people looking at infiltration systems. Finally, Mr. Saunders added that although they cannot require this particular development to ensure that the park gets placed where it is desired, the city can designate where the parks go. Mr. Saunders added one more FYI, the City Commission cancelled their July 3rd meeting and it will be rescheduled. ITEM 5. OLD BUSINESS: No old business to address. ITEM 6. NEW BUSINESS: (No discussion took place.) ITEM 7. ADJOURNMENT President Pomnichowski then stated that they do not have to move to adjourn because they are not a quorum at this time and ended the meeting there. ______________________________________ ________________________________________ JP Pomnichowski, President and Chair Andrew C. Epple, Director Bozeman Planning Board and Zoning Commission Planning and Community Development *City of Bozeman Planning Board meetings are open to all members of the public. If you have a special need or disability, please contact our ADA Coordinator, Ron Brey, at 582-2306 (voice) or 582-2301 (TDD).