HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-03-22 Minutes, City Commission Policy Meeting
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LINKED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION
POLICY MEETING
BOZEMAN, MONTANA
March 22, 2007
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The Commission of the City of Bozeman met in the City Commission Meeting Room, 411 East
Main, on Thursday, March 22, 2007, at 12:00 pm. Present were Mayor Jeff Krauss, Cr. Sean
Becker, Cr. JeffRupp, Cr. Steve Kirchhoff, Planning Director Andy Epple, Assistant Planning
Director Chris Saunders, Assistant City Attorney Tim Cooper, and Deputy City Clerk Cynthia
Jordan Delaney.
0:23:14 A. Call to Order - 12:00 pm-l:30 pm - City Commission Meeting Room, City
Hall, 411 East Main
0:23:19 B.
Pledge of Allegiance and Moment of Silence
0:24:54 C.
Public Comment
0:25:50 Michael Delanev - Public Comment
Mr. Delaney, a real estate developer in Bozeman, wanted to let the Commission know what a resort
license was. In 1998, he received a resort license for his property west of town, and it's a rare thing.
Since then, the law was changed to no longer allow resorts within city limits or within five miles of
the city limits. It is his opinion that one of the most important things to relax is to have more liquor
licenses. Since October 2006, you can bring liquor licenses to Bozeman from Belgrade, and he
thinks that's a good thing. Bozeman is the only city that possesses a resort license. It's no guarantee
a resort will receive a license.
0:28:24 Mr. Delaney
In response to a question, Mr. Delaney replied that there is a strong lobbying committee known as
the Montana Tavern Owners' Association that worked to change the laws to keep resorts out of
town. In a mixed use development, it hinders restaurants when they can't apply for liquor licenses.
0:30:04 D.
Round Table Discussion
0:30:21 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff wanted to update the Mayor on the most peculiar that happened since he was on the
Commission: the Commission made a motion on March 19 while the applicant wasn't in the room
(and stormed out of a meeting).
0:31 :02 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss stated that he has seen downtown developers stalking around throwing little temper
tantrums before, but he has never seen one stomp out or shout. He stated that with tie breaking in
the past, he was able to keep discussion going. It isn't acceptable for him to sit at home and then
come in and make a vote. Several people have contacted me to offer public input, but the public
hearing is closed. It doesn't make the public or him happy to not be able to consider public
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comment. He thinks it is a flawed process. He might balk on Monday night and may ask Cr.
Jacobson to re-open the public hearing. He anticipates having a discussion and asking questions of
staff. He has significant issues with this hotel, not just design issues. He doesn't want to say no to
all hotels being downtown.
0:34:26 Cr. Becker
Cr. Becker stated that the Commission kept asking Tim Cooper, Assistant City Attorney, how to do
this. He wanted to reconsider if they couldn't talk about it because they do need to have that
discussion with all five Commission members.
0:34:40 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss stated that there are bigger issues than the developer stomping out. Even in the
context of a yes or no vote, put something on the record that talks about what the Commission is
trying to do downtown. He asked Andy Epple, Planning Director, to be prepared for questions at
the next Commission meeting.
0:35:26 Andy Epple, Planning Director
Mr. Epple asked if that will be true for the Kagy Gardens tie breaker as well.
0:35:30 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss stated that Kagy Gardens seems to be a different problem. He agreed that he has the
same objection: could we have found something that works.
0:36:08 Cr. Becker
Cr. Becker said that there were a couple things in that (March 19) meeting that seemed out of
order--in terms of opening public comment over and over again, the developer standing up and
interrupting us and adding another five minutes that became ten minutes. He was frustrated and
didn't know how to handle that situation.
0:36:37 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss stated that he says, "Applicant, you have ten minutes." They don't get 30 or 40
minutes. We have a policy where we don't allow letters to be read. If you have letters, please
distribute them here.
0:37:24 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff stated that Cr. Jacobson said she turned down his request to playa movie, and the
compromise was reading the letters.
0:37:36 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss stated that was Cr. Jacobson's option. He said the Commission might want to make a
rule that says no reading letters and no DVD's.
0:37:54 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp stated that the applicants have ten minutes, and they can do whatever they like.
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0:38:20 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp stated that he has been corresponding with Debbie Arkell, Director of Public Service,
about cameras on the lights (on traffic signals). He reiterated that this discussion and a resolution
need to take place before they do the streets this summer. He wanted a timely answer about this
issue. He also wanted an update on legal cases they've been briefed on in the past, especially Town
Pump and Delaney. He wanted the upcoming agendas for the next two to three weeks so he knows
what is coming up at the meetings.
0:40:43 E.
Policy Discussion
0:40:51 Motion and Vote to authorize Cr. Jacobson's absence.
It was moved by Cr. Kirchhoff. and seconded by Cr. Becker. to authorize Cr. Jacobson's
absence from this meetin2 today.
Those votin2 Aye bein2 Crs. Kirchhoff. Becker. RUDD. and Mayor Krauss.
Those votin2 No bein2 none.
The motion carried 4-0.
0:41:171. R-l Zoning, Density and Accessory Dwelling Units (ADU's)
Planning Director and Acting City Manager Andy Epple presented the staff report about R-1
zoning and residential density.
0:46:47 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss stated that it establishes an entitlement there that says you can build on 5,000 square
foot lots.
0:48:18 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple stated that outside of the restricted size lot requirement, 2/3 or 3/4 of lots are larger than
5,000 square feet. In the R-1 district, 10,000 square foot lots are very rare.
0:49:22 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple stated that a pending policy issue that pertains to R-1: the Workforce Housing Task
Force is recommending significant further lot reduction to 3,000 square feet.
0:50:20 Cr. Becker
Mr. Becker asked if in R-2 and R-3 zoning, you can build on a 3,000 square foot lot (It has to be an
attached housing unit.).
0:51 :28 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple stated that these numbers are minimums; there is no upper maximum for lot size.
Another issue the Commission will be asked to think about from the Workforce Housing Task
Force is a proposal to allow duplexes in all zoning districts. The Planning staff says there is nothing
that says a city has to have 7 different residential zoning districts. With our support for mixed use
and diversity of housing types, it leads to a concept that there just be an R district--residential (as
long as the use is residential). That's how old Bozeman developed. In 1990, the GP A language was
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progressive. Its over-riding philosophy was that "any use can be made compatible with any other
use through a good design and review process."
0:56:47 Mr. Kirchhoff
Mr. Kirchhoff stated that he thinks our codes are way out there; our land designers and our public
are not.
0:56:52 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple stated that the two things people hate are sprawl and density. People don't want sprawl,
but the antidote is density. "Not in my backyard" is a strong concept.
0:57:26 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp wanted to talk about the conflict between existing R-1 neighborhoods and greater density;
new development slammed up against old neighborhoods.
0:58:49 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp asked if there is a way we can mandate when butting up against existing R-1 's that we
require that there be some minimum size of those lots next to those existing uses that more reflects
a smoother transition.
0:59:56 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp stated that it wouldn't be subjective, but mandatory. If you are up against 1/4 size acre lots
(existing R-1), it seems to be primarily a southern Bozeman issue with existing neighborhoods. He
wanted to require better transition.
1 :00:32 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff stated that he thinks it is zoning by complaint.
1 :00:34 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp said that it is zoning by a value. He isn't doing it because the neighbors are complaining;
he is doing it because he agrees with what they are putting forth. He thinks that that transition is
how he'd like to see the city be.
1 :00:47 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff said that he sees Cr. Rupp as joining the complainers.
1 :00:57 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp replied that when you have lots around 10,000 square feet (or 1/4 acre) the complaints go
away. Let's apply that same type ofrationale around town.
1 :01 :23 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff said it is people living in medium-sized homes on medium-sized lots complaining
that their neighbors will live in smaller-sized homes on srnaller-sized lots.
1:01:34 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp stated that he wants to have this discussion about uses and transition.
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1 :01 :42 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff said everything that the code has been doing for the last 20 years is contrary to what
Cr. Rupp is suggesting. Cr. Rupp is trying to back the flow of all planning and land use ideas.
1 :01 :52 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp replied that it would not be for the whole piece of property, but a band around it, a
transition zone. With R-l, there is conflict that comes with new development.
1 :02:24 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple gave a quick example of where the Commission did that: Alder Creek along S 3rd. The
multi-family part of the project was in the center of the project.
1 :03:13 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff said it is pissing him off. People come to the public meeting and say that the smaller
lots and smaller homes should be on the arterials where they belong. He doesn't find the notion
acceptable that someone living in a slightly smaller house or lot than yours should therefore be in a
shitty environment and farther away from you. He finds that is the tone and tenor of the complaints
that you get from neighbors.
1 :03:42 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp stated that he isn't here on behalf of a neighborhood.
I :03:47 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss stated that what we've had in Bozeman is exclusionary zoning (that "R-l will be
this"). He agreed with Cr. Rupp that the protection of our established neighborhoods is important to
him. By just saying "R" as a zoning designation, the houses will all look the same, and they're
mandating sameness by eliminating exclusionary zoning. He has decided that promoting density
does not promote affordable housing.
1 :08:08 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple said that the Planning Dept. would tend to disagree on that. He stated that where you get
affordability is with attached housing of various types.
1 :09:08 Mr. Kirchhoff
Mr. Kirchhoff disagreed with Mr. Epple. He doesn't think that requiring density puts uniformity in
the place of spontaneity or difference in variety. There is more variety of products in each
subdivision.
1 : 11 :02 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp stated that he isn't interested in redoing the whole R-l. He wants to have a discussion
about buffering requirements mandating around the edge (the same way around the hospital).
Promote density but recognize how important neighborhoods are.
I : 11 :38 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss said that where he and Cr. Rupp disconnect is that no one is going to have a
development like that part of town anymore. By requiring diversity within each block, each block is
the same.
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1: 15:33 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss asked that if it is worth buffering and worth saving, isn't it worth having more of?
1:15:38 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp replied yes (Cr. Kirchhoff said no).
1:16:41 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple stated that ADD's are not the source ofa lot of housing enforcement issues; illegal
apartment conversions are a huge issue.
1 :22:40 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple explained where the six units per acre came from: it was six units per acre in old
Bozeman.
1 :24:02 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple said that six units per acre is a 7,200 square foot lot. Old Bozeman is working pretty
well: people like the connectivity, mix, and vibrancy.
1 :24:51 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss asked if old Bozeman is affordable.
1 :24:56 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple replied that no, it isn't affordable. He thinks the highest priced real estate in Gallatin
Valley per square foot is in the south side of Bozeman.
1 :27:41 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss said that to him this discussion is about R-1. He stated that he heard from Planning is
that they don't want any development with tree streets anymore. He thinks that limits diversity: to
say that every subdivision is going to have these elements, and they are going to be dense.
1 :28:38 Cr. Becker
Cr. Becker stated that people with any sense to create a desirable product will make their
neighborhood as unique as people.
1 :29: 11 Mayor Krauss
Mayor Krauss said that to him this is a critical thing. If these neighborhoods are worth protecting
and buffering and having, they are worth having and maybe having more of those neighborhoods.
He said he wants that product, and people do, and they are commuting. Maybe density promoted
condos. It certainly didn't promote single family homes being affordable. Why not reconsider this
very strict minimum density requirement? He's reluctant to vote for R-l for anything now. It isn't
the R-1 from the past. He has no faith in R-1, seeing no difference between R-l and R-2.
1:31:16 Cr. Kirchhoff
Cr. Kirchhoff stated that their rhetoric is better than their logic. He doesn't mind protecting people's
sense of their neighborhoods, but that doesn't mean he wants to bring on more of those
neighborhoods. One of the reasons that they're thinking density is better: isn't it better to use land
more wisely, think about water, etc.?
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1 :32:09 Cr. Rupp
Cr. Rupp said he understands and embraces that completely, but he wishes the city would live by it,
especially in the way it annexes property ("a hanging chad"). Have a discussion of drawing a line
about where the city can go: for sprawl reduction and water conservation say no to people and say
where the city can grow.
1:37:18 Public Comment
Mayor Krauss asked if there was any public comment. There was none.
1 :37:32 Mr. Saunders
Mr. Saunders mentioned two critical sections of the code that drive the ordinance. Chapter 2 gives
minimum standards. Chapter 14 lays out all zoning districts.
1 :40:40 Mr. Epple
Mr. Epple stated that he didn't think radical surgery was needed on the code, but more attention
paid to issues of compatibility.
1 :41 : 19 Mr. Saunders
Mr. Saunders stated that the question of time and place comes up: neighborhoods change their
circumstance over time.
1 :45:31 F.
FYI/Discussion
1 :45:33 Susan Kozub - Public Comment
Ms. Kozub, ofIntrinsik Architecture who resides at 111 N Tracy, stated that it seems there is a
disconnect happening in different zoning districts. Maybe the R zone would be a good idea to
explore. Instead of going with a specific zoning district, it could be proportionate to the lot area.
1 :46:48 Karen Semerau, Executive Assistant
1:47:17 G.
Adjournment
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Je r y. s, Mayor
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PREPARED BY:
C ia Jorda e1aney, Deputy City Clerk
Approved on ~ /6,
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