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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-05-30 Minutes, City Commission, special MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING/AGENDA MEETING/WORK SESSION . OF THE CITY COMMISSION BOZEMAN, MONT ANA May 30, 2000 ............................. The Commission of the City of Bozeman met in special meeting, agenda meeting and work session in the Commission Room, Municipal Building, on Monday, May 30, 2000, at 2:00 pm. Present were Mayor Youngman, Commissioner Brown, Commissioner Frost, Commissioner Smiley, Commissioner Kirchhoff, City Manager Johnson, Assistant City Manager Brey, Staff Attorney Cooper and Deputy Clerk of the Commission DeLathower. The meeting was opened with the roll call, Pledge of Allegiance and a moment of silence. Sianina of Notice of SDecial Meeting Each Commissioner, in turn, signed the Notice of Special Meeting. Discussion re issues to be covered in conference call with Dotential consultant re economic imDact study . Mr. Sabol, attorney representing WalMart, and Mr. White, attorney representing the landowners, were also in attendance. Commissioner Kirchhoff opened the conversation by stating he and Mayor Youngman previously met in an attempt to address Mr. Sabol's concerns regarding cost, while keeping in mind the Commission's desires for this study. Their intention was to make sure the report didn't cost as much, but still covered all the bases the Commissioners need it to. The tasks from Phase 1 were streamlined to reduce costs. Commissioner Kirchhoff and Mayor Youngman believe Phase 2 is an integral part of the study so none of those tasks were eliminated. Bae Area Economics (BAE) was asked to eliminate Task 7 from Phase 2 and incorporate that material into Task 4 of Phase 1. They have not yet had a response from BAE, which, if they had that information, would make the conversation today more productive. These changes should result in a cost savings of $10,000. Commissioner Kirchhoff indicated he hopes to have a response from BAE tomorrow morning before the telephone conference. Commissioner Kirchhoff noted that early on, before WalMart made an offer to fund an economic impact study and during the initial conversation of alternatives to a temporary big box moratorium, the Commission presented a list of what they needed to know from this study which was passed on to Mr. Sabol during that meeting. In this proposed study the economic indicators will be addressed in Phase 1 and the quality of life issues will be examined in Phase 2. Commissioner Kirchhoff stated he believes the scope of the study can be tailored some more, and he and Mayor Youngman have tried to move in that direction with these recommendations. Hopefully BAE will have further ideas toward that end. Commissioner Brown asked if BAE is more aware now of what information is currently . available to help them simplify their tasks. Commissioner Kirchhoff replied, "Yes, Mr. Sabol passed along that information." Several local economists have researched "amenity- based" economies, which 05-30-2000 -~'_._-- ....... ..---------- - 2 - have been widely published and are readily available. There is also data, methods, models, analysis . models available to them. BAE initially assumed they were going to have to put forth considerable data collection efforts. Commissioner Frost stated he believes the thoughts conveyed in Commissioner Kirchhoff and Mayor Youngman's e-mail are clear, and he agrees this is what the Commission is looking for; these are the goals they outlined to begin with. He will leave it up to everyone else to decide how to accomplish them. Commissioner Brown asked if they have any idea how long this will take because it is a critical issue for WalMart, and it has taken quite a lot of time already. Mayor Youngman responded they need to ask BAE that, but in the meantime there is nothing the Commission is doing that is preventing WalMart from going through the review process. They don't have to wait for the conclusion of this study before they begin the design review process. Commissioner Smiley stated she would like to hear what Mr. Sabol has to say. Mr. White asked if BAE is going to be able to tie down the costs better tomorrow during the telephone conference. Mayor Youngman answered this e-mail was sent in an effort to clarify some of the issues not necessarily needed in this study; which will, hopefully, enable BAE to have better cost and timetable figures after tomorrow. Commissioner Kirchhoff added he and Mayor Youngman figure there will be a 20 percent reduction in the total costs, based on the cuts they are suggesting. Mr. White noted that, in terms of the whole process, the annexation and easement issues need to be resolved because they are actually holding up this project from moving forward regarding site . review. He asked if the City has had a chance to give that any more thought. Commissioner Kirchhoff answered by saying it is dependent upon what the economic impact study says. If the study says this is a good project, the city may be in a position to accept the annexation options. Mayor Youngman added the Commission knows there has been discussion about easement rather than annexation, which can go forward without coming to this table. Mr. White suggested they need to go through the conference call tomorrow and that will give the Commission a better idea as to the timetable and the cost savings. Hopefully, he will then be able to sit down with staff and take a look at these issues. If the economic study is ready to go, we can work on annexation issues. City Manager Johnson added the City has not taken piecemeal annexations in the past; and that was a decision the Commission made earlier. However, they can vary from that policy at any time. It is possible the Commission may find answers from the economic impact study that might allow WalMart to expand, going against the current policy. It is possible the site plan could be developed in two pieces, but the problem is the City doesn't know how to do that. It will slow things down if the City has to define the process with the county. Depending on the site plan, it is hard to tell. A portion of the building may be over on county property, which will be complicated. If the landscaping is the only thing in the county, that should be easier to address. This is a Commission decision to make; they can decide to go against their current policy. The City would be willing to work on a different development process that would allow some sort of review, but legal staff is heavily scheduled and it will take time. Mr. Sabol stated he sees Commissioner Kirchhoff and Mayor Youngman have addressed his concerns regarding the proposed study, but he doesn't think it is going to go anywhere. The city won't . get an economic study and the people won't get a grocery store. The enhanced plan review isn't moving concurrently because of the unanswered annexation questions. If annexation doesn't work, there won't 05~30-2000 - 3 - be an economic study. WalMart is not going to sign on for an economic study if they don't know they . have the annexation or the easement. He thought he was coming here this afternoon to work with the Commission to rework the scope of services for BAE. What Mr. Sabol previously told BAE during his conversation with them is, "Here is a copy of my letter that I gave to the City, and here is what we agreed to do - an economic study. We did not agree to these other issues." Mayor Youngman told Mr. Sabol he had never Questioned these issues before. Mr. Sabol responded he carries the Commission messages to WalMart as carefully and succinctly as he can, and the answers he gets back from them are not the ones the Commission wants to hear. No matter how much Bae Area Economics trims off of the $53,000 price tag, he thinks it will still be more than WalMart wants to pay. WalMart is looking at some other economic study help, but Mr. Sabol doesn't know if that is going to happen. It isn't going to be as easy as paring down the study; WalMart will ask where we are on the annexation. That issue is between Mr. White, his folks, and the Commission. Mayor Youngman replied the Commission has done their best to ensure a level playing field to make sure this property wasn't treated any differently than any other properties. The Commission thought that was being resolved; the Commission wants all businesses to be treated the same. Mr. Sabol stated the landowners are willing to pay their fair share of the impact fees, but they are not willing to pay them on the portion that isn't usable for the WalMart addition. Commissioner Kirchhoff responded that brings us right back to where we were before. If this study goes forward, and the study shows that WalMart will have a positive net effect on the city, the Commission will be in a position to talk about deviations from the standard annexation agreement. Mr. Sabol replied, "If we don't know we can resolve this annexation issue, WalMart is not going to pay for an economic study. I think some things are not meant to be, and I think this is one of them." Commissioner Kirchhoff asked if the conference call with BAE should still be held tomorrow. Mr. Sabol answered, "Sure, we should go . ahead and hear what BAE has to say." Commissioner Kirchhoff expressed his opinion the issues keep changing with every conversation. Mr. Sabol stated the cost and time frame involved to do the study are the issues. Mayor Youngman noted the time frame is shorter than it will take to go through the review process. Mr. Sabol responded WalMart would have already gone through the review process if staff had reviewed it. Staff is saying they won't review WalMart's plans if the annexation issue can't be resolved. According to Mr. Sabol, Planning Director Epple told him that. City Manager Johnson indicated that is not true. Mayor Youngman added WalMart could have gone forward previously; it has been their choice at every step. Mr. Sabol responded if the City is not movable from its standard operating procedures, then we ought to stop now. Commissioner Frost offered the City can look at its standard operating procedures, if that would alleviate the property owners' feelings of pain and WalMart can be shown to be a positive aspect for the city. Then he could vote for partial annexation if that works best for the city. If it doesn't work, then we can't do it. Eventually that property is going to pay impact fees, anyway. Commissioner Kirchhoff stated he feels Commissioners are here today because of WalMart's offer to fund an economic impact study, as mentioned in Mr. Sabol's original letter from February, which needs to show the economic impact on the community. Commissioners are here today in response to WalMart; the Commissioners are not here because the Commission is stalling WalMart or putting them off. If tomorrow can be productive, the City and WalMart will go forward. . Mr. White commented, with regard to Commissioner Frost's suggestion, he believes that is a good idea. The building improvements would not be outside of the city; only the detention pond, an 05-30-2000 --.-.-..--.--- ...- ..-..-.-.-.----.------- ..__._ .._...____.. __..____n__ ._.__.._..__.._._. - 4 - access road for delivery, landscape buffering, additional sewer/water facilities. Senior Planner Skelton . said City staff favors putting this 2.5 acres in the city so the City has more control. In terms of impact fees, they will be paid on the building as it stands now. There will be no impact fees on the roadway, pond, and trees. This property must be developed in the city, and all of it will come into the city later. The question is, according to Mr. Skelton, "Will this benefit the City to have this 2.5 acres come in now? If not, if an easement does exist, it can be expanded off to the east a little bit." Mayor Youngman asked if the Commission is unified in believing the kinds of trimming and revisions to the scope of service are the direction to go, but that the Commission doesn't want to eliminate the quality of life issues because it isn't possible to understand Bozeman's economy without it. Commissioner Brown agreed that is part of the information he needs to make an informed decision for the city. Annexation is, indeed, a complicated issue. If the staff favors annexing the 2.5 acres, he would also be inclined to go along with that. Commissioner Smiley stated she is inclined to think that the City should pay for the study, no matter what WalMart decides to do. This study would give the City information that could be used in the future. She also noted she favors annexation of the 2.5 acres, and she has from the beginning. Planning Director Epple passed out a copy of a letter he gave to Mr. Sabol and Mr. White regarding the review process for WalMart. This could end up as a situation where part of WalMart could be in the City and part of it could be in the County, which is currently zoned R-S. Mr. Epple noted he asked the City attorneys to advise the Planning Department as to how such a review could occur, and what the appropriate process would be. This is new territory for the City to do joint zoning review with the County. . City Manager Johnson noted Mr. White has indicated a couple of times that staff would be supportive of annexing the 2.5 acres. He said he assumes the City would be supportive of that as opposed to joint City/County zoning. The City's preference would be to annex the entire parcel. The City's hierarchy of preference would be total parcel annexation, 2.5 acre annexation, and lastly, an easement or joint zoning with the county. Mr. Johnson asked Planning Director Epple if it is true, as Mr. Sabol has indicated, that Planning staff has stopped processing WalMart's site plan review and will not allow it to go forward? Mr. Epple answered that is the case; but they are reviewing the architectural, design features of the proposed building addition. Staff is not moving forward with the site plan review because they don't know what the parameters of the project will be. The City has offered to move ahead with architectural review and has asked WalMart to submit architectural drawings to review for site design. On the ground site review, staff cannot proceed until the City knows whose jurisdiction the ground is in. Commissioner Kirchhoff added WalMart has said they would agree to an economic impact study and an enhanced review of the site plan. Planning Director Epple stated staff is looking for the most logical thing to do. They don't want to waste their time and WalMart's if they don't know where the boundary will be. They are trying to move ahead with the enhanced architectural review and the landscape review. They are hoping to get something from WalMart in the next several weeks regarding site plan and landscaping. City Manager Johnson asked what is the resolution to moving that process forward; the annexation? Mr. Epple replied he thinks so because that will determine where the site boundaries will be. There are also issues regarding vacations on West Oak Street. City Manager Johnson replied, "The question on annexation is, 'Do we have the language that would meet the interests of both the Westlakes and the . City regarding impact fees, or is the Commission willing to make an exception to its piecemeal annexation policy?' If so, what sort of information does the Commission need?" It appears this 05-30-2000 - ---.. ______._ ____ .______ ...._n._______.. - 5 - annexation issue needs to be put on the agenda. What information does the Commission need to make . the 2.5 acre decision, which would probably be a repeat of the earlier discussion regarding the economic analysis determining if this would be a positive addition to the community? Commissioner Frost again indicated if the annexation can be done; and we have a study that shows this will have a positive impact on the community, he would be wiling to go with the 2.5 acre annexation. City Manager Johnson stated the processing of the site plan could go forward; and staff could review the current plan and decide it wouldn't fit on the site, then the building would require redesign. Planning Director Epple responded the normal process is annexation and zoning as part of the package of review. Staff looks at what is being annexed and what the appropriate zoning would be. Then they conduct the preliminary plat and major site plan review. City Manager Johnson asked, on the property as it currently exists, could they fit their addition on? Mr. Epple acknowledged it is possible with a design that is different from the one they currently have. We haven't seen any proposal like that or tried to take it there ourselves. What they have proposed so far doesn't fit on their site without adding some acreage to it. Commissioner Kirchhoff suggested that tomorrow perhaps they can discuss what an enhanced site is, from both WalMart's perspective and the City's. Mayor Youngman stated in order for her to make a decision, the Commission needs to weigh the pros and cons and determine if there is something different about this annexation that allows the Commission to trash its current policy. She indicated she needs to talk to staff a little bit more about that. Commissioner Smiley added she would be in favor of doing something to promote the annexation of the 2.5 acres or to encourage WalMart to expand on their site differently. What they're proposing is . what is already happening around Bozeman. Commissioner Kirchhoff said he would have to have some very good reasons for special treatment; and in his mind, he doesn't see how anyone can think about a 2.5-acre annexation as anything but special treatment. He indicated he is not interested in that. Commissioner Frost added he would agree with that; but if this study shows that an expanded WalMart is going to be a plus for the Bozeman economy, in his opinion that is a special condition. Commissioner Kirchhoff responded that point could be argued for any addition in the community. Does that mean the Commission should change its policies? Commissioner Frost replied he wants to see what the economics of this study shows. He is going to vote for whatever is good for the City; and if WalMart or the big boxes aren't good for the City, then he is going to vote the other way. Commissioner Frost stated he would like to see the enhanced design plans WalMart is submitting before the Commission decides to annex or not. City Manager Johnson noted the 2.5-acre annexation or the whole parcel annexation could be brought back onto a future agenda. Commissioner Smiley asked what was the previous action the Commission took? Mr. Johnson replied, "The action was no." Mr. Sabol stated the Commission passed a resolution of intent to annex the 20 acres. It has been on hold. Commissioner Kirchhoff replied the majority of the Commissioners are saying they will look at annexing the 2.5 acres, depending on the outcome of the study. City Manager Johnson stated the condition on annexation is on the Westlakes to have work done by a third party. That is not necessarily saying having the economic impact study done by . WalMart; that doesn't necessarily relate to the Westlakes' property. 05-30-2000 ------- .-------- - 6 - Mayor Youngman reiterated she doesn't understand why full annexation is such a big deal to . the Westlakes. The City will change the mechanism if it loses the impact fee case. Everyone that comes through at this time is treated the same way. Mr. White responded the problem is that impact fees are left in place irregardless of what the court says. The problem for these folks is it could be different down the road. It is strictly economics; they don't want to pay impact fees if the person down the street doesn't. Commissioner Kirchhoff replied if the impact fee case is lost, the City will have some other mechanism for assessing fees on developed land. Mr. White stated the Westlakes feel this land cannot be developed with these impact fees in place if the person down the street doesn't have to pay them in three years when they develop their property. City Manager Johnson pointed out the ordinance currently says, "... or the system that is in place at the time". Mr. White stated that is not what he understands the ordinance to say. Commissioner Smiley asked for clarification from staff again. Mayor Youngman wondered if that "or" statement will do it for the Westlakes, to which Mr. White replied, "Oh sure, I think the "or" will take care of the problem. If you settle the litigation and pay whatever it is, that's not a problem; but I don't think that is what it says." Mr. White reminded the Commission there are a lot of annexations out there, and those people keep calling him about this issue. Commissioner Kirchhoff again asked if the City would make a change to provide the extra language, would that suffice Mr. White's clients' needs? Mr. White answered we could do it that way, but the easiest thing would be to annex the 2.5 acres at this time. Commissioner Smiley suggested the City look at the annexation agreement language. AQenda Meeting - for reaular meetinQ and Dublic hearinas to be held on June 5, 2000 Since this is an agenda meeting, only those issues requiring staff action are contained in the minutes. . City Manager Johnson briefly reviewed the background information which was included in the Commissioners' packets. (4) City Manager Johnson stated this ordinance was written at his direction and request to change the current ordinance in an effort to facilitate the enforcement of no skateboarding in pavilions or on stages and is primarily directed at the Bogert Pavilion. Currently, when a Police Officer asks the skateboarders to leave, they return immediately. This ordinance will give some teeth to Police citations. There are continuous complaints about the noise and recurring damage to the picnic tables. The other side of this is if we could get skateboarder compliance, this ordinance would not be necessary. This ordinance specifically mentions skateboards because the roller bladers are not making the same kind of noise or damage as the skateboarders. To support the skateboarders, the Parks Department has made an effort to make another space available; the paved area next to the ball fields on West Babcock Street and Fowler Avenue. Currently they are trying to round up ramps and other devices to put out there for the skateboarders to use. The neighbors have also been contacted. This facility will remain in place until the skate park is completed. Commissioner Frost noted it is important to keep this facility in place anyway because there will be those who won't go to the other side of town to the skate park. He mentioned the skateboarders also destroy the bleachers. Maybe this ordinance should include language to include bleachers. Staff Attorney Cooper replied this ordinance could be made broader to include as many areas as necessary. Commissioner Kirchhoff commented "grinding" is the destructive activity and should be included in the revised language as well. City Manager Johnson pointed out that the third section of additional language locks people . out of parking on the lawn at Bogert or any park lands or trails unless authorized by the Director. Staff Attorney Cooper added this language is strictly limited to the City parks. There are other statutes that 05-30-2000 - 7 - will cover some of the activities currently being discussed; specifically the general mischief statutes. . If the Commissioners have any other specific structures they don't want people "grinding" on, they will need to be included in this ordinance. Commissioner Kirchhoff asked if anyone has been able to locate the skateboarder leader. City Manager Johnson answered these are kids, and/or adults, who are not a part of the organized skateboarder group. The skateboarder group is very responsible, and the problem is not with them. Commissioner Frost inquired if the current public nuisance ordinance covers skateboarding after hours. Mr. Johnson replied just being in the park after hours is a violation. The Police do get good cooperation from some who don't know the rules, but there are others who refuse to comply. (7) Commissioner Brown stated the Humane Society put out a plea for people to help house pets; and now those people end up having to buy a kennel license when they are helping out the Humane Society. We haven't solved the problem if we hit these people up with a $50 kennel fee for housing cats. Commissioner Frost acknowledged that he, too, has had calls from residents who have taken cats from the Humane Society when it is full and have now had to buy a kennel license. It doesn't seem to make any sense. City Manager Johnson suggested this might be a policy change issue. Commissioner Smiley noted there are foster homes for animals now, and the Commission needs to address these issues. Mayor Youngman said there still needs to be some kind of a review process, even if these placements are temporary situations to support the Humane Society's no-kill policy. The Commission needs to make sure the neighbors can have input. There needs to be some kind of balance; perhaps a process that wouldn't necessarily have a fee attached. Commissioner Kirchhoff asked why they just can't give the animals back to the Humane Society. Commissioner Frost replied the Humane Society is full; and we don't want these animals roaming around the city, so these people take them in. It makes sense not to penalize these people. Commissioner Brown commented, "We have a Humane . Society that doesn't work and requiring the $50 fee is going to make it worse." City Manager Johnson noted he has been contacted by the Humane Society asking for an opportunity to come in and talk to the Commission regarding their problems and recommendations. He said it can be scheduled as a work session item, so the Commission will have some information from the Humane Society to base its decision on. Mayor Youngman added she would also like to talk to the Humane Society about releasing pets to people with licenses. She feels there is no reason why the Humane Society couldn't add the requirement for rabies shots to their spay/neuter requirement. Commissioner Frost said pet spaying or neutering must be done, even if someone has to go around with a van saying, "We will do this procedure for free". In every other city, the Humane Society does that. This is a big problem in our city. It's not the pets' fault; it's the owners'. Staff Attorney Cooper wanted to ensure the Commission was aware that Captain McCarver, Bozeman Police Department, has an ongoing dialogue with the Humane Society; and that there had been a transition of sorts when the City's animal control ordinance was amended. Some of these issues are linked to stays issued by the court. Captain McCarver has met with the Humane Society about taking animals from the City's animal control officer, and how long they are keeping them. Commissioner Frost suggested the City may need to open a shelter, one without a no~kill policy, to solve some of these problems. Mayor Youngman added perhaps the animal control officers, Captain McCarver, and the judge need to be included in the meeting with the Humane Society. (17) Commissioner Smiley asked if there would be sufficient protection in place, after changing this zoning designation, to prohibit casinos in this area. Senior Planner Skelton assured her . that was correct. 05-30-2000 -- ---- --- .8- . Break- 3:55 em Mayor Youngman declared a break from 3:55 pm until 4:03 pm in compliance with Commission policy. (23) City Manager Johnson asked who is the property owner next door to this subject property? Assistant Planner Berger replied Louis McDonald, and Doug Smith is the owner of the next property over. Commissioner Frost then asked if the property to the west is subdivided, to which Ms. Berger replied, "No". (24) Commissioner Kirchhoff inquired if there has been any discussion about a more traditional sidewalk and boulevard treatment, rather than the curbwalk. Assistant Planner Berger responded there are two existing drive cuts; and staff wants them to improve the curbwalk, transitioning to the 5-foot boulevard on the east. Commissioner Kirchhoff then asked why there is no boulevard on the west. Ms. Berger replied it is an existing developed site, and they are providing 25 feet of landscaping on both sides and removing 8 feet of paving adjacent to the building. Commissioner Frost wanted to know if they are planting trees. Assistant Planner Berger answered, "Yes, they will meet the landscaping requirement; and staff will be looking at a revised landscape plan." City Engineer Brawner added the right-of-way does change midway on this lot, so to put a boulevard on the west end would require a public easement. The east side is the area where the City is ordering in the sidewalk, and they are hoping to get a boulevard in then. Commissioner Kirchhoff . asked if there will be curbwalk all the way, to which Mr. Brawner responded that somewhere in this area will be the transition from curbwalk to boulevard sidewalk. Commissioner Kirchhoff then wanted to know if there is boulevard planned to go west on that side of Main Street. Mr. Brawner answered the plan, just by looking at the topography, is to maintain curbwalk where it currently exists. Commissioner Kirchhoff then questioned the decision to allow a metal building "from top to toe". Assistant Planner Berger stated this is a different product from what is on the Co-op building. Nu- Wave siding was favored by the Design Review Board, and the applicant has been requested to bring in a sample of the siding and the color pallette. (25) Commissioner Kirchhoff wanted to confirm the appellant claims he was never informed about the parking space requirement. Assistant Planner Berger stated that is Mr. East's claim; however, the staff report talks about the parking requirements in place and the appellant knew the requirements. She also noted she did receive a phone call from Christine Yearly, restaurant lessee, who wanted to make two clarifications to the staff report - 1) the work done to the restaurant was corrections to work previously done, not renovations; 2) the parking tickets issued to her and mentioned in the staff report were called into the Police Department by the appellant. (26) Commissioner Kirchhoff noted there is no requirement for an environmental assessment, and he asked if there ever will be such a requirement. Assistant Planner Berger responded, "Yes, there will be." Mayor Youngman asked if the other lot is all Cupola property. Ms. Berger replied the Cupola property extends to the east and to the north. Mayor Youngman inquired if creating one big lot makes . it easier to separate it out and come up with some kind of a proposal that will get around what the Commission was previously expecting. Assistant Planner Berger answered the owners are intending to 05-30~2000 ---------- ---- -- -- --.---.----- -.--.-.---... ---.---.-------- .-.- - 9 - get that parcel of land reviewed at a later date. Mayor Youngman responded, asking "Does getting an . aggregate lot make it easier for them to get around the previous requirements?" Planning Director Epple stated this doesn't make it easier nor does it exempt them from environmental review in the future. (27) Commissioner Kirchhoff asked if the Sourdough easement was separate from the platting, and does it count toward the park space requirement? Senior Planner Skelton replied it will be counted. There could be 2 to 3.5 acres potentially dedicated as park land. Commissioner Kirchhoff then asked when does the question of a trail on lots 2 and 3 come in? Mr. Skelton replied with further subdivision of lots 2 and 3. The neighbors are opposed to this trail because they are afraid it will encroach upon their property, even though staff has tried to assure them otherwise. Planning Director Epple added it is not a given that it is desirable to have a trail on that side of lots 2 and 3; it is possible it may be more desirable to have park space in another location. Commissioner Kirchhoff inquired if there needs to be a physical hardship to grant a variance. Senior Planner Skelton answered, "No, not for subdivisions." Commissioner Kirchhoff wanted to know if the Police and Fire protection language found in the staff report is typical language; Mr. Skelton assured him it was. Work Session - (A) Review of landfill comments: staff reSDonses: and (8) Review of City Manaaer's Budaet Recommendations for Fiscal Year 2000-2001 (A) Review of landfill comments; staff responses Included in the Commissioners' packets was a memo from City Engineer Craig Brawner, dated May 24, recommending that further consideration of this item be continued to the July 24 Commission work session, with the period for public comment be extended to June 30. . (B) Review of City Manager's Budget Recommendations for Fiscal Year 2000-2001 Included in the Commissioners' packets was information submitted by the various senior staff members identifying those items requested but not funded in the City Manager's recommendations. City Manager Johnson asked Streets/Sanitation Superintendent Sicz if he had budgeted to plow residential streets. Mr. Sicz replied all he requested is additional personnel to sweep streets during the summer months and to do a better job of plowing streets; he did not budget additional monies specifically to plow. Since those were not funded, his crew will continue as they have been. There will be lots of calls from residents regarding snow plow response time. Commissioner Frost stated he thought Commission direction was to not plow neighborhood streets; snow routes first, then arterials and collectors next. Streets/Sanitation Superintendent Sicz replied he didn't get any direction to not plow neighborhood streets. Commissioner Frost responded he doesn't want to plow neighborhood streets because the City doesn't have the money to do 50. He wants to just stop plowing the neighborhood streets, period; the City doesn't have the money. If people live in Montana, they should expect to drive in the snow. Mr. Sicz stated the City may want to modify its current snow policy so the public is aware of the current way of thinking on plowing streets. He said he would be happy to do that more toward the fall. Commissioner Frost said he was hoping to see something in writing regarding no longer plowing neighborhood streets. Director of Public Service Arkell noted that was in the policy direction; does the Commission want to do more? . Mayor Youngman stated the one sweeping of high priority to all of the Commissioners is 05-30-2000 _...n________._ .- . - ....--.-- - 10 - sweeping the bike lanes. Did that stay in? Ms. Arkell replied the City has applied for funding for a small . sweeper for the bike lanes; and she was told that anyone that applied for funding from the MACI- Discretionary program would be funded, but she hasn't received confirmation in writing yet. Mayor Youngman then asked if that is going to be an issue because there is no funding for the person to run this sweeper. City Manager Johnson answered that is a hard question to answer because people are moved around depending on the work load. Streets/Sanitation Superintendent Sicz added it would be possible to use seasonal employees when they are available, but it is difficult to get seasonal workers. Mayor Youngman wondered if liability would prevent the City from using volunteers, if they were trained. City Manager Johnson answered that is a contract question; there is specific contract language that would have to be considered. Mayor Youngman noted there were a bunch of staffing positions it was hoped could be funded this year; and although they were high priority requests, they couldn't be met. She asked if there still is support from staff to maintain staff at its current level or reduce the CIP in their division. City Manager Johnson responded it will reduce the amount every year going to the CIP, and it will be difficult for staff to answer that in the general fund. There are general fund people here today; you could poll them to find out how they feel. Mr. Johnson said he doesn't know how to judge when the City is causing the operation to suffer because of being frugal with staff. He noted these are the people who should be answering that; are they being allowed to achieve their performance measures? Library Director Meister replied the library was able to get ten additional computers, so now they need someone to help them full*time in the technical support position. They have offered to forego their CIP item because they are getting enough equipment that they need to fund this position full time. Streets/Sanitation Superintendent Sicz stated he thought they were going to utilize this . program to show the Commission and the public how they were going to do more and these are the people needed to do that. Commissioner Frost noted the performance standards will be lowered now because we can't fund these positions, and the public needs to know this. Mr. Sicz stated when he put his performance standards together, he looked at other communities for direction. As Bozeman grows, the response time for various tasks will be lengthened. Eventually the City will have to say it cannot do these things in the outer areas until later or not at all. Commissioner Frost reiterated the public has to understand these things will affect them, but he doesn't know how to do that. There will be times when there is a unique situation that needs to be taken care of, like the master plan and zoning ordinance this year, that will lower the performance standards. Planning Director Epple noted the zone code revisions and subdivision regulation revisions will be harder to complete; there will be a crunch there. The performance measures in code enforcement were based on additional personnel. Commissioner Frost stated the City needs to let neighborhoods know that the City cannot enforce these codes. Mr. Epple added the City also needs to let the neighbors know they can pursue enforcement themselves. City Manager Johnson stated that in the case of streets, the street maintenance district assessments can be raised. Also, the public can be asked for general fund increases. The Commission could also ask for additional mills to fund these additional people. Mayor Youngman replied she isn't sure the City is at that point yet; has too much disappeared from the budget that it is so painful that we need to ask for more? She suggested Administrative Services Director Gamradt needs to focus on key things when he makes his public budget presentation, like which performance measures were based on additional staff, if it would help the public understand. It takes a lot of education and communication . before people know if they want to increase their tax dollars or not. 05-30-2000 - -.------- ------ - 11 - City Engineer Brawner noted their performance measures are qualitatively based; their . workload is very affected by the City's growth rate. There is a baseline amount of infrastructure that needs to be kept rehabilitated and maintained. There are also strict time frames for reviews. In the case of subdivision and zone code reviews, personnel funded by general funds are being paid by those reviews. Engineering's CIP requests are based on growth issues. The reality is, even if they get the one engineer they requested, it will still be difficult to meet the demands. Mayor Youngman asked if they have calculated how much they would have to charge to be able to bring an additional engineer on board. City Engineer Brawner answered, "No, we have to determine what is fair and equitable." City Manager Johnson noted if the Commission gives Engineering another engineer, it further strains the Legal Department. Those kinds of things feed off of each other. If the Planning Department were to charge fees that would make the department self-sustaining, the numbers would be staggering. However, that would be a way to shift the burden away from the general taxpayer and onto the person who is creating that burden. Superintendent of Facilities and Public Lands Goehrung noted some of the problems the City is facing go outside of the organization, like the lack of employees. He noted his department is down five seasonal employees from the number they need, so they can't get the work done at their busiest time of year. Therefore, there will be work that won't get done. Gallatin Valley Land Trust wants to give the City a trail; but the City can't maintain that trail, so realistically the City needs to turn down that offer. Commissioner Frost stated this is what the public needs to hear from the department heads; what needs aren't being met because we don't have the people and equipment to meet those needs. City Manager Johnson noted there is a paradox here - Mr. Goehrung took Commission policy direction, and now people are in Mr. Johnson's office enraged because Mr. Goehrung is now suggesting the public . pays for use of City facilities. He recognized staff has done great work, and the budget they presented to the Commission is with full recognition that these are high priorities and these are not quite as high. Commissioner Frost replied, "We get elected to make these decisions; and if we don't have the backbone to stand up for our staff, then you should kick our butts out!" City Manager Johnson noted the cuts made to the building maintenance budgets were the hardest costs for him to cut. Mayor Youngman added the public hasn't had an opportunity to understand the City's dilemma here. Library Director Meister stated she is supportive .of the CIP, and she appreciates the opportunity the City Manager gives departments to take that money to spend. However, Library staff feels the need to maintain their equipment, as a part of good stewardship. Ms. Meister also expressed appreciation to have the option of not using the CIP money for a specific project and using it for something else. Commissioner Brown noted the thing that scares him about this budget is that some day they're going to have to take a leap of faith and do something, like open a third fire station. Operation of that facility is going to kill the City; the City could build the building, but the City couldn't staff it. There is going to be a real temptation to raid the CIP program in the future. Commissioner Frost stated the City is going to have to be more businesslike; it is going to have to charge fees that will cover the costs. The Commission needs to take a stand. Planning Director . Epple noted people feel there is a general good and benefit to the community as a whole by having a regulatory program that works. Having a program for 100 percent cost recovery has never really been 05-30-2000 - 12 - seriously explored in this town; and in other towns, it has lead to review fees that lead to a significant . amount of "sticker shock". City Manager Johnson suggested the Planning Department could be modeled after the Building Department, which has a good fee-based system. As demand grows, the revenue will cover the cost of the additional employees. They will be able to stay status quo with their ability to process their work on a timely basis. The Recreation Department is making an attempt to do this, and the Library could do the same if it were to charge library users. If the Commission is willing to go that route, the City is willing to go there, too. Administrative Services Director Gamradt noted if the City would create a park maintenance district and a joint dispatch district, they would generate significant amounts of revenue; and that would have a significant effect on the budgetary fund. City Manager Johnson stated the City is not statutorily approved to do those at this time. The City will be a step closer once voting in self-governing powers. Great Falls has asked the legislature twice to clarify the and twice they have been denied. City Engineer Brawner said one thing that concerns him about fee-based revenue is when the City has down times, the City could have a need to reduce staffing. City Manager Johnson replied the way it is handled by the Building Department is to have a plan for de-escalating staff and to have a year's reserve in that account to draw upon for the down times. They also have a mechanism in place for months when they don't collect revenue, which hasn't happened yet. Planning Director Epple noted across the country building fees are self-sustaining, and in good years are revenue generating. However, building inspection is very time definite, while planning and engineering are not; they drag on and on and involve a lot of different departments. Commissioner Frost stated it has been obvious since 1991/1992 that the City is going in the . hole by growing; the more Bozeman grows, the more in the hole the City goes. The City needs to figure out a way to fill in that hole. He suggested looking at this seriously because of the need for revenue. If the City told the taxpayers this year this is what you're not going to have, it wouldn't affect them this year; but it may next year, and the City needs to set them up for that reality. The City can't keep its head above water. This city has had an attitude of giving people free services, and the City is going to have to start giving them less if the City can't figure out some way to fund those services. City Manager Johnson suggested the City should be beating on the legislature for a local option sales tax. Commissioner Frost responded they have tried to get a sales tax for years; the legislature really doesn't care. Commissioner Kirchhoff stated West Yellowstone has a resort tax, why can't we? City Manager Johnson replied, "You have to have a population of less than 5,000." Mayor Youngman asked if the Commission still wants to try to get more of the word out for next Monday's public budget presentation or work more for the long term. Both Commissioner Smiley and Commissioner Kirchhoff agreed the long term. Commissioner Frost stated he would like to know how much the City is in the hole. Commissioner Smiley agreed and stated she would like to see the real numbers of what growth is costing the City. Administrative Services Director Gamradt replied a real good number is the amount of impact fees collected for those four services at 3 percent. City Manager Johnson proposed the converse argument from some aspects of the public is "do less". The public needs to know which levels of service will be available with additional funds and . those discontinued without the additional funds. Commissioner Kirchhoff noted it takes a long time for education to filter through people, and the education plan needs to be seasonally adjusted for impact. 05-30-2000 --- ------ ___._".._ __ _.__ _.un., _.u - 13 . Commissioner Frost said this is what the City needs to show the public; the City had to cut these . services because the City doesn't have the money. The City cannot meet performance standards, so performance is going to go down. Discussion - FYI Items City Manager Johnson presented to the Commission the following "For Your Information" items. (1) Copy of a letter from Farmhouse Partners to the School District, dated May 22, proposing that the East Willson School be converted to a mixture of affordable senior apartments, office and meeting space for non-profit organizations and storage space for the School District. (2) Notice of Special Meeting for the telephone interview scheduled for noon on Wednesday. (3) Copy of the flyer listing the activities for Historic Preservation Days. (4) Letter from Ase Carlson, Hawthorne Elementary School, dated May 14, suggesting a park along the west side of North 19th Avenue across from Denny's. (5) Revised calendar for adoption of the budget for Fiscal Year 2000-2001. (6) Copy of the current zoning ordinance, including the revisions adopted under Ordinance Nos. 1514and 1516. . (7) Agenda for the Development Review Committee meeting which was held at 10:00 am on Tuesday, May 30, in the Commission Room. (8) Agenda for the County Commission meeting which was held at 9:00 am on Tuesday, May 30, at the Courthouse. City Manager Johnson presented the following FYI items: (1) He and Steve Sparks went to Helena and attended a very interesting MEGA meeting. The private sector individuals bring so much to the Board it is amazing. There is a MEGA Executive Committee and he is a member; three members from the public sector and three from the private sector. The purpose of this Board is to facilitate decision-making, since it is hard to get 12 people together. He noted he is encouraged by what they're learning, and they believe municipalities have a good chance at getting the bid. More than ever, he is convinced this is a good thing for the citizens of Montana. He added it is exciting to be in a group that makes million dollar decisions by the second. Commissioner Kirchhoff asked where the living wage proposal is at this time. Commissioner Smiley replied the Montana Peoples' Action is trying to get people together to talk about it. Mayor Youngman added she met with them last week and gave them various numbers regarding grants and the budget statement and brought them up-to-date on the latest Commission conversations. They are planning to have some chats with the Gallatin Valley Development Corporation, and she urged them to go to the Planning charette and some other things. . Mayor Youngman stated Debra DeBode is coming to share her thoughts about the water conservation proposal with the Commission. Commissioner Kirchhoff added the figure to consider for 05-30-2000 -. -----....-- - 14 - running the program is 1.5 percent of the City's water revenues, with a 5-year implementation for the . program. Commissioner Brown offered the following FYI items: (1) He attended the second-hand smoke meeting and felt it was a worthwhile discussion. One of the local bar owners was in attendance and had a different perspective. The Commissioners will see a proposal from this group at some time in the future to ban smoke from public places. The proposal may exclude bars, but will probably include restaurants. Helena and Missoula both have smoke~free policies already. (2) The Montana Economic Development Summit will be held June 25 and 26, which will interfere with a Commission meeting. Will there be representation from City staff or the Commission? City Manager Johnson replied he will be attending. Commissioner Brown said he will register, whether or not he actually attends. He doesn't take lightly missing a Commission meeting, but he does think this is a worthwhile meeting to attend. Commissioner Smiley stated she may register as well because she will be in Great Falls that weekend. (3) He will be out of town for the June 12 meeting. Commissioner Frost asked if anyone has answered the letter from this little girl? Mayor Youngman responded, "Not yet, but we will." Mayor Youngman presented the following FYI items: She got to drive around town in the hybrid, energy-efficient Honda. The mayor of Missoula is thinking of getting one as his mayoral car. It was fun to try it and think about it as a future model for the City's fleet. There is also a Toyota model which will be available on June 1 st, which is a 4~passenger model. (2) The wetlands workshop was excellent; staff helped to pull this together. (3) The Mayor from Milano, Italy was here. Adjournment - 5:54 D.m. . There being no further business to come before the Commission at this time, it was moved by Commissioner Frost, seconded by Commissioner Smiley, that the meeting be adjourned. The motion carried by the following Aye and No vote: those voting Aye being Commissioner Frost, Commissioner Smiley, Commissioner Kirchhoff, Commissioner Brown, and Mayor Youngman; those voting No, none. ~~-------------- ATTEST: -', ~. Q j/:d~ j R IN L. SULLIVAN " Clerk of the Commission - PREPARED BY: ~u-~hQ ~~uu KA EN L. DeLA THO ER . Deputy Clerk of the Commission 05-30-2000 ----. -...