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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-07-10 Minutes, City Commission --..---- -- MINUTES OF THE AGENDA MEETINGIWORK SESSION/SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION . BOZEMAN. MONTANA July 10. 2000 ***************************** The Commission of the City of Bozeman met in agenda meeting, work session and special meeting in the Commission Room, Municipal Building, on Monday. July 10, 2000, at 3:00 p.m. Present were Mayor Youngman, Commissioner Brown, Commissioner Frost, Commissioner Smiley, Commissioner Kirchhoff, City Manager Johnson, Assistant City Manager Brey, City Attorney Luwe and Clerk of the Commission Sullivan. The meeting was opened with the roll call, Pledge of Allegiance and a moment of silence. Aaenda Meetina . for regular meetina and Dublic hearinas to be held on July 17 , 2000 Since this is an agenda meeting, only those issues requiring staff action are contained in the minutes. City Manager Johnson briefly reviewed the background information which was included in the Commissioners' packets. . (4) Commissioner Brown requested clarifications in Section 3, to more accurately reflect the monthly allowance received by the Mayor, to state that the allowance is for local mileage only and to reference other out-of-town travel and expenses in the last line. (added item) Mayor Youngman requested permission to add, as a line item, a recommendation from the Recreation and Parks Advisory Board regarding naming of the pavilion at The Bozeman Ponds. She noted that the Board will not be meeting until Thursday evening, so the information will not be available for inclusion in the packets; however, the Optimists hope to make the dedication at an early August event. The Commissioners concurred with adding this as a line item on next week's agenda. (13&14) Senior Planner Skelton stated these hearings are to be opened and continued to August 7. (17&18) Senior Planner Dave Skelton provided the background for this project, noting that it includes a preliminary plat for a 100-unit condominium project and a conditional use permit for a residential planned unit development. He stated that a significant amount of information has been provided in the packets, including an environmental assessment and community impact statement, the original application for the PUD, the short version of the traffic study and an addendum responding to the issues raised during the Planning Board meeting. The Senior Planner stated that the Planning . Board considered only the preliminary plat portion of this project and, during that consideration, four key issues were raised: groundwater, wildlife habitat, density and traffic. He indicated that the 07-10-2000 ----..-.--------..- --.-.---. --.-..---- -.-.. ..- .. -.--..- .-.. -----.-...-... - ...-. -.. - .__u__._.___. - 2 - minutes for that meeting and the resolution, in which the Board recommended denial, will be included . in next week's packet. He stated the primary reason for the negative recommendation is traffic. The Senior Planner encouraged the Commissioners to work off the staff report dated July 5, rather than the earlier version. He highlighted some of the information in that report, noting that staff had recommended approval, subject to 22 conditions. He reminded the Commission that a variance had been granted in conjunction with approval of the four-lot minor; and noted that the final plat for that subdivision must be filed before this project can move forward. The Senior Planner stated that groundwater is within three to eight feet of the surface and, through appropriate engineering techniques, development can occur. He also indicated that the wetlands in the middle and the northeast corner of the property are to be maintained. He noted that. under the existing zoning, up to six units per acre is allowed; under this application the density would be 3.4 units per acres. This is identical to Spring Meadows Subdivision to the north, which is a traditional development rather than a condominium development. The Planner turned his attention to traffic, noting the City Engineer has indicated it has been the intent to extend Graf Street southward, through this property, to Goldenstein Lane. He indicated that, given the patterns of development in that area, it does not seem a southward extension beyond that point would occur. He recognized that additional traffic from development of the entire four-lot minor and Sundance Springs will probably use that street; however, the traffic study and the Engineering Department have both indicated the existing street system would be able to accommodate the additional traffic without creating an unacceptable level of service. He stressed that. while Graf Street may be a thoroughfare, it will be constructed as a typical residential street. . Mayor Youngman requested information on the lengths of the blocks, noting that longer streets, without interruption, are less safe. Senior Planner Skelton reminded the Commission that under the planned unit development process, standards can be relaxed without seeking a variance or deviation. Mayor Youngman stated that, if the blocks are double ortriple the allowed length, there needs to be some type of offsetting mechanism to ensure the safety of those crossing the street. She then asked for the widest and narrowest distances between the building envelopes and Graf Street, suggesting the possibility of moving some of those building envelopes further from the wetlands and closer to the street. Commissioner Frost noted that, at the Planning Board meeting, one of the basic concerns was not knowing what will be built on the other three lots, and the associated long-term traffic issues. Responding to Mayor Youngman, City Engineer Craig Brawner stated that, in his memo, he suggested that Graf Street could possibly be designated as a minor collector street. He noted that it is to be a 37-foot-wide street in a 65-foot-wide right-of-way. He then indicated there is no distinction in street standards for the various designations. He stated that he has never heard staff say the two sections of Graf Street should not be connected; rather, it has been anticipated that Graf Street would be extended to Goldenstein Road at some point. Mayor Youngman requested that the Commissioners forward any additional questions to staff . as soon as possible, so they can be prepared to address those issues during the public hearing, particularly in light of the number of big items on the agenda. 07-10-2000 -..--- - 3 - ( 18) Senior Planner Skelton stated the key issue in this project is the architectural landscape items. He noted that the layout is designed to protect the wetlands as well as the . Sourdough Trail. He estimated that the buildings will be 75 feet to 120 feet from the trail, but will verify those and other distances prior to next week's meeting. He briefly highlighted the recommended conditions of approval, noting that none of them are unusual. ( 19) Associate Planner Sherman gave a brief overview of this project, characterizing it as complex. He stated the application is for 90,957 square feet of retail space, to be constructed in a U-shaped structure, in phases. The buildings closest to the street are to be single.story and smaller than those on the west end. Approximately 60 percent of the structure is to be constructed in the first phase, with the remainder being constructed in a subsequent phase or phases. He stated this application was considered at a number of Development Review Committee and Design Review Board meetings; and many significant changes have been made in the plan in response to concerns raised at those meetings. He highlighted those changes and stated that, as a result of them, staff has forwarded a recommendation for approval, subject to 43 conditions. Mayor Youngman indicated that she will call staff with her concerns and questions later this meeting, and encouraged the other Commissioners to forward their comments as well. Work Session - (A) Presentation of water reDort - Debra DeBode: (B) Discussion re reauest for use of aolf cart on Gallaaator Trail: (C) Identify Dossible issues for the uDcomina leaislative session (A) Presentation of water report - Debra DeBode . Included in the Commissioners' packets was a copy of the water report as prepared by Debra DeBode. Ms. DeBode stated that she serves as the Assistant Director for International Programs at MSU, and prepared her water report for her Masters in Public Administration program. She stressed that she does not consider herself a water expert, but prepared her paper on one of her personal interests, noting she has lived in Bozeman for almost twenty years. She stated that Gretchen Rupp, the Director of the Water Center, is an expert in this field and is present to respond to questions as necessary. Ms. DeBode provided a brief summary of her report, stating she prepared it in light of the booming population, aging infrastructure and Bozeman's semi.arid environment, with an average of eighteen inches of moisture per year. She noted that the water facilities plan prepared in the late 1990s by MSE-HKM Engineering identified $37 million in needed water system improvements, not counting the possible construction of a dam. She voiced her interest in considering other options to a dam, particularly in light of environmental concerns. Ms. DeBode identified two different management styles. One is the standard traditional approach, which is getting the water supply and then supplying the water to the people; the other is progressive management, which includes reducing demand and increasing efficiency in use, teaching the true value of the resource, and encouraging conservation. . Ms. Debra DeBode stated that, when preparing her paper, she looked at seven small cities in the western United States, one of which is smaller than Bozeman. She found a significant amount of literature on water conservation and did fairly extensive research on that literature. She also gave 07-10-2000 - 4 - the water specialists in those community a series of questions to answer. She found that the information lacks solid quantitative data; and people in the field realize that fact. She noted, however, . that her research has revealed that dams are not built much anymore; rather, alternative methods of providing water are being pursued. Ms. DeBode forwarded her conclusions, which include emphasizing education, targeting peak use, providing financial incentives, providing rebates for low flow toilets and shower heads, and implementing a revised rate structure that encourages conservative use of water. She suggested that friendly incentives should be used to encourage reduction in water use, rather than penalties. She recognized that getting involved in a water conservation program will cost money, stressing the importance of using consultants to assist in developing it. Responding to Commissioner Kirchhoff, Ms. DeBode stated the average per capita water use in Bozeman is 170 to 200 gallons per day, while the average in the western United States is 150 to 1 60 gallons per day. She recognized that most people use water efficiently, but suggested that the amount of water used by a wasteful user could be reduced by 30 percent without reducing the standard of living. Responding to additional questions from Commissioner Kirchhoff, Ms. DeBode noted that. since water is an enterprise fund, the pricing must be very carefully balanced. She cautioned that failure to do so, particularly if the water usage drops more than anticipated, could result in lost revenues. Responding to Commissioner Smiley, Ms. DeBode stated that seriously water starved cities promote the use of grey water to water lawns; however, that program is not used in semi~arid . communities. She concurred that more native and less thirsty plants can be promoted for new landscaping. She suggested that listing the water usage for the month, along with a comparison of the water usage for that same month a year ago, could provide beneficial information to the consumer. Responding to Commissioner Kirchhoff, Ms. Gretchen Rupp stated that several communities in Texas have good landscaping ordinances. Mayor Youngman suggested that educational messages could be included in the water bills, and suggested that displays could be set up in the hardware stores and nurseries. Commissioner Frost voiced his interest in a three-tiered water rate system. He noted that the public has been appreciative of the option to reduce garbage collection costs through reducing the amount of garbage generated and suggested they may be equally appreciative of the possibility of reducing water costs in a similar manner. Responding to Mayor Youngman, Ms. Gretchen Rupp stated she has a list of eleven consultants who advertise themselves as water consultants. She noted that spending $50,000 on a consultant to devise a conservation program would be money well spent. Mayor Youngman stated her support for starting a water conservation program with the City buildings first, and voiced her interest in doing so soon. She also asked that this item be brought back for additional discussion in the near future; and concluded by thanking Ms. DeBode for her presentation. . 07-10-2000 -------- . - -- - ,--- - - 5 - (B) Discussion ra request for usa of golf cart on Gallagator Trail . Included in the Commissioners' packets was a copy of a memo from Staff Attorney Day- Moore to Superintendent of Facilities and lands Goehrung, dated June 8, regarding this issue. Staff Attorney Patricia Day-Moore provided background information, noting that in May, she received a request to drive a golf cart on the linear trail by a gentleman who suffers from pulmonary fibrosis, which Qualifies as a handicap. She indicated that, with two minor modifications, the trail could accommodate a golf cart. She stated, however, the first Question to be addressed is the purpose of the park, on which motorized vehicles are currently prohibited. She noted the park was created to allow interaction with nature, and allowing a golf cart on the trail would violate that purpose; and allowing the use of the golf cart is not a requirement under ADA since other accommodations have been made, including the use of wheelchairs. Staff Attorney Day-Moore stated that she suggested this request be submitted to the Recreation and Parks Advisory Board for their review and recommendation. Following their review, the Board forwarded a recommendation for approval; and she cautioned that Mr. Davis may feel that is the only approval he needed. As a result, she suggested that the Commission make a decision as quickly as possible. City Attorney luwe suggested that this request may not be subject to a Commission decision; rather, it is a decision to be made administratively, with the possibility that a negative decision could be appealed to the Commission. Responding to Commissioner Brown, Staff Attorney Day-Moore stated that motorized . wheelchairs are allowed on the trail and, in fact, when she was walking the trail, she passed one. She indicated that the trail itself is pretty well groomed and provides an adequate surface for such a mode of transportation. She then stated the section of trail that Mr. Davis wishes to use is adequate to accommodate a golf cart; the needed modifications are located on other portions of the trail. Commissioner Kirchhoff voiced his interest in having the Commission make the decision on this request. City Attorney luwe cautioned that allowing a golf cart on the linear trail will fundamentally change the character of the trail, since others similarly situated must be granted the same opportunities. Staff Attorney Day-Moore noted that Mr. Davis is voluntarily limiting his use of the linear trail; however, she questioned whether those limitations could be imposed on anyone else. Mayor Youngman suggested the possibility of defining a preference for wheelchairs rather than golf carts. She noted the Recreation and Parks Advisory Board was mindful of Mr. Davis' many years of volunteering and his importance as a community resource. As a result, the Board felt he should be accommodated to the extent possible. Responding to Commissioner Kirchhoff, Staff Attorney Day-Moore stated that the Commission is not legally required to allow a golf cart on the linear trail, but may do 50 if it so chooses. . Responding to City Manager Johnson, Commissioner Kirchhoff stated he feels that someone with physical problems should be allowed to get to and use the trail, without changing the nature of 07.10-2000 -..----.- . 6 - the trail. He suggested that specific requirements could be attached to an approval, including size of motor, size of tires, noise level and a limitation to physical disability. . City Attorney Luwe cautioned that the trail has been established for pedestrian and bicycle use, not for motorized vehicles. He noted that motorized wheelchairs are allowed, as an ADA accommodation; however, he stated that allowing a different motorized vehicle will fundamentally change the use of the trail. Mayor Youngman voiced her interest in considering an approval that is as restrictive as possible, so that allowing the use of this golf cart will not result in "open season on golf carts". Commissioner Smiley noted that Sun City has a trail system that allows walkers, hikers, bikers and golf carts; and stated there must be some way to make that possible here. Commissioner Frost indicated he needs additional information before making a decision. Commissioner Brown stated that he has known Mr. Davis for over thirty years and acknowledged the validity of his request. He noted, however, that approving it will change the character of the trail; and he cannot support it, particularly since motorized wheelchairs are already allowed. City Attorney Luwe indicated that staff will arrange for this item to be placed on a future agenda. . (C) Identify possible issues for the upcoming legislative session Mayor Youngman stated she has received a letter from the County Commission, in which they have identified legislative issues and discussion of ballot issues and mill levies as the two topics to be reviewed during the joint meeting scheduled for July 31. Due to the late hour and the other items on the agenda, Mayor Youngman asked that the Commissioners forward any suggestions for legislative issues to the Clerk of the Commission by July 19, for inclusion in the July 24 packets. SiQnina of Notice of Special Meetina Each Commissioner, in turn, signed the Notice of Special Meeting. Ordinance No. 1521 - revisina Bozeman Senior Center Advisorv Board Included in the Commissioners' packets was a copy of Ordinance No. 1521, as approved by the City Attorney, entitled: ORDINANCE NO. 1521 . AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF BOZEMAN, 07-10-2000 ... .-- .-..---..-.--- .--.----- --------. -.-------.--- .. - ---.-..--".--.-- - 7 - MONT ANA, PROVIDING THAT THE BOZEMAN MUNICIPAL CODE BE AMENDED BY ADDING CHAPTER 2.96 OF SAID CODE PROVIDING FOR THE CREATION OF A . BOZEMAN SENIOR CENTER ADVISORY BOARD AND ESTABLISHING THE DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES THEREOF. Distributed just prior to the meeting was a letter from Charles Stablein, member of the Board, voicing concerns about the ordinance as written. Staff Attorney Patricia Day-Moore stated this ordinance was prepared in response to Questions which arose at a Commission meeting a few months ago. She noted that Questions arose about whether members of the Senior Center Board of Directors could serve on the Senior Center Advisory Board; and she also had concerns about whether such a crossover in membership is ethical or results in a conflict of interest. Her research has indicated that the crossover results in neither an ethical problem nor a conflict of interest; however, she indicated the ordinance has been drafted to eliminate that possibility. She stated this ordinance replaces the resolution which originally created the board, to bring it into conformity with the manner in which most of the other boards have been created; and many of its provisions remain the same. She indicated, however, that it does allow for the appointment of non-voting, ex officio members from the Board of Directors, who would serve as information gathers and givers. Commissioner Smiley suggested that, rather than two ex officio members from the Board of Directors, there be one member and one alternate. She also stated her support for establishing term limits. Commissioner Brown voiced his preference for maintaining flexibility, noting there are times . when the Commission encounters problems in trying to fill positions. He suggested that the manner in which the Commission makes appointments could provide the desired turnover in membership on the board. Mayor Youngman noted that a flexible statement cannot be included in the ordinance and suggested that it be addressed through Commission policy. Commissioner Brown stated the wording in the previous resolution was very confusing and asked that the language in this ordinance be revised to eliminate any possible misconceptions. He also noted the previous board was called the "Bozeman Senior Citizen Advisory Board" and suggested that the word "Center" be changed to "Citizen" in this ordinance. He then voiced his concerns with several other provisions in the ordinance as drafted, particularly where the name of the facility and the names of the Bozeman Senior Center Board of Directors and the Bozeman Senior Citizen Advisory Board are not spelled out each time they are used. He also voiced concern about the manner in which the duties and responsibilities of the Board are listed, stating they cause confusion as written. He proposed that Section 2.96.030.8.1. be deleted in its entirety to avoid possible confusion and conflicts between the two boards. Staff Attorney Day-Moore noted that a majority of the ordinance is almost verbatim from the original resolution, indicating that, at this time, she is seeking guidance from the Commission on how to revise it to meet their intent. Ms. Cleo Butler, member of the Board, stated she was appointed in January and has attended . the two meetings held since then. She noted that, as a new member, her only orientation was a letter from Charles Stablein. She stated that, under this ordinance, two of the current positions will be 07-10.2000 - 8 - vacant because of those members serving on the Board of Directors. She does not feel that term . limits are needed; however, the original bylaws restricted appointments to three two-year terms, and one of the members has served for ten years. She concluded by stating her concurrence with the provision that the members serve without compensation. Ms. Shirley Powell, member of the Board, stated she was also appointed in January. She voiced her support for a limitation on the number of reappointments. She suggested that, rather than providing for two liaisons from the Board of Directors, the Commission consider one liaison and one alternate. Ms. Peggy Tombre, Director of the Area IV Agency on Aging, stated her office is located on the second floor of the Senior Center. She voiced her support of for term limits for the Board members. She proposed, however, that the ordinance be revised so that at least one liaison be appointed to represent the four agencies on the second floor. Ms. Judy Morrill, Senior Center Director, stated her support for term limits, noting that they have already been implemented on the Board of Directors. She voiced her concurrence that the wording can result in misunderstandings, and asked that it be revised to eliminate as many of those misunderstandings as possible. She cited the language regarding the budget as an example, noting that the City considers only the budget for the buildings and grounds, not for senior center programs. Responding to Commissioner Smiley, Ms. Morrill confirmed that the budget for the senior center is public information. Following discussion, the Commissioners concurred that the bylaws be revised to provide for . term limits. Staff Attorney Day-Moore asked if the Commissioners want to add a liaison for the agencies on the second floor. Commissioner Brown voiced his support for allowing one liaison and one alternate for those agencies on the second floor. He then stressed that the board meetings are open, and anyone may attend. As a result of the discussion, the Commissioners concurred that action on this ordinance should be delayed until after the requested revisions have been made, and delayed action to the August 7 meeting. Discussion - FYI Items City Manager Johnson presented to the Commission the following "For Your Information" items. ( 1 ) Copy of an article entitled Bright Side of The City, published in the April 22, 2000 edition of the Washington Post, as submitted by the Planning Office. (2) Agenda for the School Board meeting to be held at 7:00 p.m. tonight at the Willson . School. 07-10-2000 ~ 9 - (3) Agenda for the County Commission meeting to be held at 9:00 a.m. on Tuesday, July 11, at the Courthouse. . (4) Agenda for the Development Review Committee meeting to be held at 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday, July 11, in the Conference Room at the Professional Building. (5) Notice that no Design Review Board meeting is scheduled for July 11, due to the lack of projects. (6) City Manager Johnson noted this past week was a quiet one; and he will be attending the City Manager's meeting on Friday, at which legislative issues will be discussed. (7) City Attorney Luwe submitted the following. (1) Suggested that one legislative issue to be considered is funding of the victim witness program, noting that 50 percent of the monies now go back to the State and are not used to fund this program. (2) Stated that he and Staff Attorney Day-Moore will be attending a hearing in Anaconda on Wednesday. Recess - 5:52 c.m. Mayor Youngman recessed the meeting at 5:52 p.m., to reconvene at 7:00 p.m. for public interest items. Reconvene - 7:00 D.m. . Mayor Youngman reconvened the meeting at 7:00 p.m. for the purpose of considering public interest items. Recoanition of International Visitors - visitina teachers from Ukraine. Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan Mayor Youngman welcomed the visiting English teachers from Ukraine, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. She noted that the gifts from the various countries are on display on the dais during this meeting. One of the English teachers responded by thanking the Commission for the opportunity to attend this meeting, noting they met with the Mayor last week. She noted that the teachers represent three countries and are the national winners of an excellence competition. She stated that they are attending a professional development seminar at MSU and are learning about the United States system. which is very new and interesting to them. She concluded by noting they will take their best impressions back to their respective countries. Ordinance No. 1518. crovidina for revisions to Drohibitions in cublic Darks. to not allow skateboards in or on cavilions or staaes . Included in the Commissioners' packets was a copy of Ordinance No. 1518, as revised in response to the Commission's direction during provisional adoption. entitled: 07-10-2000 ..n___._ - 10 - ORDINANCE NO. 1518 . AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF BOZEMAN. MONTANA. PROVIDING THAT THE BOZEMAN MUNICIPAL CODE. AS AMENDED BY ORDINANCE NO. 1463. WHICH ORDINANCE IS NOT CURRENTLY CODIFIED IN THE BOZEMAN MUNICIPAL CODE. BE AMENDED BY REVISING SECTION 12.26.030: PROVIDING FOR REVISIONS TO PROHIBITIONS IN PUBLIC PARKS. City Manager Johnson noted this ordinance has been brought forward as the result of ongoing dialogue about general noise problems and damage to property in the park, particularly at the Bogert pavilion. Mayor Youngman noted that the Commissioners have received e-mail testimony and telephone calls, which she entered into the record, as submitted by the Deichmanns, Dora Anderson, Bill Moekel, David and Christie Crawford, and Jay Moore. She then opened the meeting to additional public comment, stressing that, contrary to information being circulated throughout the community, the ordinance does not outlaw skateboarding, but does define and limit the use and allows the Commission to identify specific hours of use. Mr. Bill Clinton, 216 Lindley Place, voiced his support for the ordinance, and asked that the Commission also consider eliminating skateboarding at Bogert pavilion when the Kirk Park skate park opens. He noted the average size of a park in Bozeman is 7.2 acres: and Bogert Park comprises 1.6 percent of the total parkland in the community. He noted, however, more facilities are located at Bogert Park and more activities take place there than in any other park; and skateboards create more noise and damage than any other activity. He suggested that the Haynes Pavilion at the Fairgrounds . could provide an alternate location to the new skate park at Kirk Park if an additional location is needed, noting that the design of the new pavilion should preclude the echoing that exists in the Bogert pavilion. He concluded by thanking the City staff, who have worked to resolve the problems and who have constructed the temporary skate park facilities. Mr. Mike Harrelson, 1119 South 3rd Avenue, encouraged that the existing laws regarding skateboarding at the Bogert pavilion be enforced, noting that if those laws were enforced, the only remaining problems might be with some of the immediate neighbors. He stated that to close the park to skateboards except for two hours each day would be not address the needs of the community. He has two sons, ages 6 and 8, who skateboard, and noted that "kids don't carry Day timers" . He stated that, when he wants to skateboard, it's after a workday and, if this ordinance is adopted as proposed, he will have no opportunity to do so. He noted there is a perception that the facility at Kirk Park will eliminate the pressures on other community facilities, but cautioned that thousands of kids are seeking this type of resource. Ms. Katherine Ball, 323 South Wallace Avenue, stated she is a neighbor of the park and opposes the ordinance. She expressed concern that, as activities are moved out of the park, it becomes more difficult for her son to participate in them. She noted that Bogert Park is a part of the community, and those living around it need to be more tolerant of the activities taking place there. She suggested the issue is more of an enforcement issue than a use issue. She indicated that adoption of this ordinance will punish the good kids in the community, while the bad kids and adults will continue to use the facility and damage property. She noted, rather, the community needs to . welcome the good kids and respect their choices. She voiced her frustration that the neighborhood feels the park is being overused, stating she feels that the more it is used, the better it is. She concluded by encouraging the Commission to vote against this ordinance. 07-10-2000 . - . -- ---...-.-- n_ u_ ---.----- . 11 . Mr. Fred Nelson, 213 Lindley Place, stated his support for the proposed ordinance. He noted . that some of his friends from outside town wanted to go on a picnic, but did not want to go to Bogert Park; and he views that as a problem. He indicated that, with additional controls and established time periods, the park would be enjoyed by a lot more people. Mr. Jeff Cooper, 667 Moonbeam Drive #D, stated he is the general manager of MacKenzie River Pizza, and he enjoys skateboarding. He noted that Bogert Park gives him a place to take his two.year.old daughter, where she can play and enjoy herself while he skateboards. He stated that, as a working parent, he encounters time constraints; and he does not feel that banning skateboarding in Bogert Park is appropriate. Mr. Mike Baber, 1000 North 17th Avenue #186, stated his opposition to the proposed ordinance, stating he feels young people's lives are capsulized too much and that adults should work with the youth through their actions rather than through words. He commended those who are concerned about fellow skaters doing the wrong things and at the wrong times, and noted that he encourages the skateboarders to police their own group. He concluded by asking that the Commission not adopt this ordinance. Mr. Craig Wheat, 54 Park Plaza Drive, stated he has been skating at Bogert for the past six years, noting he goes every day and has learned many tricks and had a good time. He noted that if the hours are set from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., he will be unable to skateboard on weekdays during the school year, since he gets out at 3:30 p.m. Mr. Josh Fisher, 601 West Main Street, stated he is opposed to prohibiting skateboarding at Bogert Park. He noted, however, that skateboarding should not be allowed after 10:00 p.m., since . it is a disturbance. He stated there are already rules against vandalism, but he does not see them being enforced. He noted that, at the present time, Bogert Park is one of the few public places where people can go to skate, and stated that many of the better kids are now skateboarding rather than choosing other activities, since it gives them an opportunity to express themselves. He concluded by stating that the community should do more to foster skateboarding and expressing his appreciation for the temporary skate park. Ms. Anna Epp, 8986 River Road, noted that allowing skateboarding from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. would be better than 2:00 to 4:00 p.m.; however, she would prefer to see it allowed any time. She encouraged the Commission to vote against the ordinance, noting that the youth have few places to go; and Bogert Park provides a flat piece of concrete in a public park. She stated the Fairgrounds is not like a park, and does not provide an atmosphere in which the kids can hang out. She also cautioned that the Fairgrounds Manager needs to be asked if open skateboarding will be allowed at the Haynes Pavilion, noting it was her impression that it would not be. She expressed concern that the ordinance, as written, singles out one user group, while in*line skates and bicycles can cause as much property damage as skateboards. Mr. Jeremy Adamich, 1604 West Lincoln Street, stated he has skateboarded at Bogert Park for eight years, and enjoys having a place where he can skateboard out of the rain. He recognized it is noisy and inconsiderate to skateboard when someone is having a picnic. He stated the main issues are noise and destruction of park property; and there are already ordinances in place to deal with both of those issues, but they are not being enforced. He concluded by encouraging the . Commission to not adopt the ordinance. 07-10-2000 . 12 - Mr. Chris Murphy, 1410 Bohart Lane, stated his strong opposition to the ordinance, noting . he has skateboarded for the past eleven years and recently moved to Bozeman. Mrs. Anne Banks, 7 Hill Street, noted that skateboarding is not a crime, but it appears the City is trying to criminalize it. Since there are already ordinances in place to control the problems, and suggested that more opportunities need to be provided, so that no one park and no one set of neighbors is so burdened. Ms. Lorel McChesney, 7197 Lorelei Drive, stated her main reason for opposing this ordinance is that it is discriminatory against one user group. She stated she has four children, who either rollerblade, skateboard or ride bicycles; and questioned how she might handle the situation if skateboarding is prohibited. She concluded by encouraging the Commission to vote against this ordinance but, rather, that they take steps to bring the kids in the community who participate in freestyle sports together. Mr. John Staelens, 10 Shooting Star Trail, Gardiner, stated he skates in Bozeman because there is no opportunity in Gardiner. He then voiced his opposition to the proposed ordinance. Ms. Annie Fast stated she goes to 4.H and skateboards. She noted, however, that she is not good and runs into people, so she prefers to skateboard at Bogert Park, where she has more open space and won't hurt anyone. Mr. Nel Boshoff, 9420 Forest Creek Road, stated he is against the ordinance. Mr. Anar Rosen stated he is moving to Bozeman; and he opposes the ordinance. . Ms. Ruth Goodell, 1336 West Babcock Street, suggested that some type of barrier be installed between the Bogert pavilion and the neighbors. She noted that skateboarding opportunities are very, very limited; and adopting this ordinance would remove yet another opportunity. She suggested, rather, that the current ordinances be enforced. Mr. Jay Moore, 3160 Prairie Smoke, stated he recognizes the concerns raised by the gentleman who walked a block to the park for a picnic only to find skateboarders in the pavilion. He noted there are other places to go for a picnic; but there is no other place to go to skate. He stated the skate park is smaller than the pavilion, although it does have more features. He cautioned that, in light of the demand for skate facilities, no existing facility can be eliminated and still meet that demand. He proposed that, to address the issue of damaging property, specific tables be donated for skating. He also suggested that the existing ordinances be enforced to address the noise and after hours skating, and concluded by asking that this ordinance not be adopted. Mr. Ryan Curt, 1604 West Curtiss Street, stated he has lived across the street from the intermural grounds for five years, and recognizes that noise comes with living in that type of location, which is very similar to a park. Mr. Andrew Hertsens, 1434 Ash Drive, stated he goes to Bogert to skate and, if this ordinance does pass, he will lose one of his favorite places to go. . Mr. Bill Clinton stated Bozeman does not have a specific noise ordinance; and his research has revealed most noise ordinances are based on decibel levels at certain distances. He noted that the levels of noise from skateboarding in the pavilion are significantly higher than those levels in the 07-10-2000 . 13 - typical ordinance. He recognized much of this is due to the structure of the pavilion itself, since it . captures the sound; and the result can be damaged hearing. Mr. Mike Baber asked that, if noise levels are established, they be applied to all events. He stated that he has tried to plan for this year's skateboard season, building ramps that they have been unable to use. He stated it is unfair to treat skateboarding the way it is being treated, noting he has been unable to rent the Bogert pavilion for the summer's events that he had hoped to accommodate. He noted that skateboarding in a parking lot can be hot, and rain can stop activities. He concluded by asking that the City use the existing ordinances to keep peace, rather than adopting this ordinance. Ms. Katherine Ball stated she lives between Lindley Park and Bogert Park; and the noise from those parks bounces off the ridge and into her yard. She noted that all events make noise; and people must learn to cherish those moments and be respectful of the neighbors. She recognized there are times when noise is inappropriate and, at those times, a telephone call to the police should adequately address those problems. She concluded by asking that the community embrace the skateboarders and make them part of the community. Responding to Commissioner Smiley, City Manager Johnson stated the City does enforce the existing ordinances after hours, noting that skateboarders and any other people in the park after hours are removed. He indicated this enforcement is done on a complaint basis; and response is based on the number of other activities going on in the community at the same time. He noted it is difficult to address the property damage issue unless that damage is witnessed. Commissioner Smiley noted those attending this meeting are not the ones creating the problems. She stated, however, this is a community of neighbors who work different shifts and . children who need their sleep at night. As a result, she stated there needs to be a change in the ordinance, indicating she is willing to give more hours in the evening while ensuring it does not create additional problems for the neighborhood. She concluded by recognizing that even more places need to be provided for skateboarding activities. Commissioner Kirchhoff expressed concern that this ordinance, which is designed to address the disturbance of peace issues, disproportionately hurts the good participants. He noted that activity is overwhelmingly health for the community and the youth and should not be discouraged. He suggested that steps should be taken to address the problems with the pavilion rather than criminalizing an activity that should not be. Commissioner Brown thanked those who have provided input, stating he feels that the destruction of property and noise levels are out of hand and need to be addressed. He indicated his support for the ordinance, recognizing that possibly more hours could be provided; and suggested that additional, more appropriate locations, could be considered for skating facilities. Responding to Commissioner Frost, City Manager Johnson identified the differences between this proposed ordinance and the existing ordinances, noting that this one would be much easier to enforce. Commissioner Frost stated his concern is that the ordinance addresses only one group that uses wheels and causes damage and makes noise. He recognized that skateboards make a lot of noise and can cause damages; however, bicycles and in-line skates can cause equally as many . problems and are not addressed in this ordinance. 07-10-2000 --------- - 14 - City Attorney Luwe noted this ordinances allows skateboarding at the pavilion under a resolution that establishes specific hours of use. He then cautioned there are other changes in this . ordinance that pertain to parks but do not pertain to skateboarding. Commissioner Frost noted that, after years of problems with ice hockey, they installed better boards; and that significantly reduced the noise. He also noted that trees have been planted that, in ten or fifteen years, may block some noise. He suggested that, maybe with help from the skateboarding community, some of the noise from these activities can be mitigated. He recognized that the park is there to use; however, it is important to recognize that some people also abuse it. As a result, the Commission needs to implement an ordinance to give officers the authority to cite people. He recognized that providing longer hours for skateboarding is important, and well as revising the ordinance to include all wheeled recreational vehicles. Responding to Mayor Youngman, City Attorney Luwe noted that, in light of the manner in which this item was placed on the agenda, if the Commission wishes to expand the ordinance to include all wheeled recreational vehicles, then it must bring the ordinance back on a future agenda. Mayor Youngman voiced her preference for delaying action and thinking through the information received prior to adopting the ordinance. She recognized that part of the pressure is arising from the fact that the skate park is not opening as soon as originally anticipated; and the .. skateboarders have nowhere else to go. She indicated her interest in coordinating any adopted hours with the opening of the skate park, to ensure there is no period in which a facility is not provided for that activity. She recognized that one park will not meet the community's needs; however, she also recognized that the Bogert pavilion was not built for skating, and it is difficult to make skating a good neighbor. She indicated her support for soundproofing without making the pavilion a closed facility . and noted that, until then, only limited hours should be provided. She acknowledged that the community is behind on providing facilities for every sports activity, not just skateboarding. Commissioner Smiley noted the ordinance is needed to ensure the community as a whole is protected. She recognized the joys of skateboarding, rollerblading and bicycling are shared by adults and youth alike; however, she noted the City must set the tone and the parameters under which those activities occur. Commissioner Kirchhoff reiterated his opposition to adopting the ordinance and questioned where the incentive to improve the pavilion is found. Mayor Youngman recognized that, if skating facilities can be constructed before a neighborhood is developed, it is easier to do it right. She also noted that the need for a covered facility was not raised during consideration of the proposal to construct a skate park at Kirk Park. City Manager Johnson reminded the Commission that the City recently contributed $180,000 toward construction of a new pavilion that is governed by another political entity. He urged those in attendance to approach that entity to provide time for skateboarding at that facility as well. As the result of Commissioner discussion, a majority of the Commissioners agreed that this ordinance should be revised to include all wheeled recreational vehicles and that a resolution should be brought back in conjunction with adoption of this ordinance to set hours allowing such activity at Bogert Park. . 07-10-2000 I - 15 - It was moved by Commissioner Brown, seconded by Commissioner Frost, that action on this ordinance be continued to the 3:00 p.m. session of next week's meeting. The motion carried by the . following Aye and No vote: those voting Aye being Commissioner Brown, Commissioner Frost, Commissioner Smiley, Commissioner Kirchhoff and Mayor Youngman; those voting No, none. Adjournment - 8:44 D.m. There being no further business to come before the Commission at this time, it was moved by Commissioner Frost, seconded by Commissioner Smiley, that the meeting be adjourned. The motion carried by the following Aye and No vote: those voting Aye being Commissioner Frost, Commissioner Smiley, Commissioner Kirchhoff, Commissioner Brown and Mayor Youngman; those voting No, none. MARC~~AtJt:;- ATTEST: -'- ~Z~ ROBIN L. SULLIVAN Clerk of the CoiTimissfon ~ . . 07-10-2000 -... .-.--.-- ......-.