HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-11-11 Parking Commission Minutes Bozeman Parking Commission Meeting
May 11, 20117:00 a.m.
City Hall Commission Room
Parking Commissioners in Attendance:
Pam Bryan
Chris Naumann
Chris Pope
Tammy Hauer
Ben Bennett
Ben Lloyd
Lisa Dazl-Scott
City Staff in Attendance:
Cyndy Andrus, City Commissioner
Laurae Clark, Treasurer
Paul Burns, Parking Manager
Ashlie Portnell, Parking Clerk
Guests in Attendance:
None
Action Items:
• The June meeting was officially rescheduled for June 1, 2011
• Ben L motioned that there is a higher use for the Carnegie lot, Chris P
seconded the motion. A vote was taken and the motioned passed with a 5
to 1 vote.
I. Call to order
Pam called the meeting to order at 7:30am.
IL Approval of April 13, 2011 minutes
Pam asked for a motion to approve the April 13, 2011 minutes. Chris N motioned to approve the
minutes, and Chris P seconded. The motioned was carried unanimously.
III. Public Comment, for any member of the public wishing to comment on
parking issues. State name and address. Please limit comments to 3 minutes.
None.
IV. Action Item, Discussion and recommendation to the City Commission
regarding future use of the Carnegie Lot.
Paul presented a staff report regarding the request to sell the Black/Carnegie lot.
He stated that the BPC cannot sell any city owned property, only the City Commission would be
able to do so. The BPC can only give advice to the City Commission.
Paul referred to the parking study update for a lot of his information. He stated that the study
currently shows a surplus of parking around the block in which the Carnegie lot and the parking
garage is located.
Currently the Carnegie lot has 71 spaces. Main, Black, Mendenhall and Bozeman make up the
Carnegie block. Within that area there is a total of 183 spaces. These spaces are found in public
parking, private parking, alley and both on and off street parking.
The parking garage has a total of 435 spaces, combining those spaces with the streets that make
up the garage block, and there are a total of 479 spaces.
Surplus spaces found at the Carnegie block are 85 spaces. The garage block has 321 surplus
spaces. Most of the 321 comes from the garage itself. There are quite a few permit holders, but
the garage still has plenty of spaces available everyday for people to park.
The parking study concludes that "...the demand calculations indicated the existence of a parking
surplus which provides headroom for future downtown growth."
Therefore, Paul recommends that due to the findings of the parking study, that the city consider
selling this lot if the economic value of doing so is a significant benefit for the downtown
community.
After Paul's presentation, Pam asked if any of the Commissioners had any questions or
comments.
Ben L asked if other studies are being considered for the future.
Studies will be considered in the future, but nothing is lined up at this time.
Chris P asked if the data from the study supported what Paul has observed in his tenure as district
manager.
Paul responded yes: that there is always somewhere to park downtown due to the parking garage;
it has created many surplus spaces around the area.
Chris N asked what is considered standard industry capacity?
Paul stated that 85% is considered the standard. Chris N went on to ask if peak times have been
considered. There are many different kinds of businesses downtown. Restaurants and retail
shops will have different peak times than that of the banks. Those kinds of things need to be
considered, that could affect the availability of parking spaces downtown.
Pam asked about the night time usage at the parking garage.
Paul stated that the garage is well lit, and that police officers do patrol the area.
Lisa asked if the permit holders at the Carnegie lot would be moved into the garage?
Paul said that those permits holders could purchase a permit for the garage but they would not be
forced to do so. There are less than ten permit holders in that lot, so it will not affect too many
customers.
Cyndy asked how often the parking garage is patrolled by police officers at night?
Paul stated he cannot vouch for how frequently they patrol the garage, simply that they do it as
part of their night time patrol. The new police sub-station downtown has been a great addition
and there are officers that are assigned to that station on a regular basis which has increased the
visibility and availability of an officer for routine patrols. Having the new patrol station
downtown has seemed to help lessen the amount of vandalism at the garage.
Tammy asked if the new hotel was to be built, would they have onsite parking available for their
facility? And would that have to be part of the BPC's recommendation for the City
Commission?
Pam stated that the hotel project would be required to independently satisfy the City's parking
code, adding that the BPC cannot recommend anything until the project is underway.
Pam opened the floor for public comment.
Ashley Ogle from Kenyon Noble stated that there is no point in allowing the City to sell
something you need,just to turn around and buy back that property to create what you just sold.
She asked how we determine surplus? Kenyon noble is not operating a business downtown as
this time, and that some of the condos in the garage are not even full and there are vacant
businesses downtown. When they are full eventually we would need to account for the parking
spaces they need. She asked where the money from the sale of this lot go?
Chris N stated we might buy a new parking lot.
She asked where are we going to come up with new parking? The BPC might not even be able
to find land to purchase for a new lot. She asked if the BPC has thought all this through? When
is the data going to be taken?
Chris P stated that purchasing another lot is just an assumption. We are using the 2010 data.
She asked if the study took into consideration the businesses not operating?
Steve Roderick from the Ridge Downtown stated that you just invested money for additional
parking for the downtown area. He doesn't like the idea of taking away parking just when we
invested money into providing parking in this area. He wants to know who is deciding that if
that lot does go away that we will have a better economic stimulace. He took some of his own
data. One day he observed that at 12:30 p.m. the subject lot was entirely full. Other times just a
few spots were being used. He spoke to people who use that lot. 76 % of people who go to the
Ridge use the subject lot to park. He asked that the decision that is made consider all the
businesses that use that lot.
David Loseff from the Baxter Hotel stated that it was not good to make a business decision
based on a snap shot of data. You need to look at the trend lines. He looked back at previous
studies and the 2010 study. Despite the addition of the garage over the last 20 years there was a
loss of 19 spaces, and provided documentation for those findings. He believed the numbers are
skewed. He says peak demands are higher in June, July and August. He stated he was speaking
for other owners in his building as well, and stated that business decisions are sometimes
irrevocable. You must consider the outcome if you are wrong. That is what he is asking the
BPC, to carefully consider this decision in case they are wrong to take away this lot.
Larry Bowman from Owenhouse Hardware spoke about previously sitting on the Bozeman
Parking Commission. He talked about the struggles they had to create spaces and discussed the
cash n lieu process. He stated that there needs to be development in the downtown to stimulate
the economy and attract customers to the downtown area to keep up with the rest of Bozeman.
The lot in question is ideal for development, and would be a great opportunity for downtown.
The hotel project would create more jobs and customers for other businesses in the downtown
core. He is in favor of developing this lot.
Dave Berghold of 11 E Main, The Last Wind-Up spoke in agreement with Larry. He believes
development downtown is very important. To have a hotel downtown is a natural attraction to
other businesses, retail, restaurants etc. To not have that resource available to visitors would
force them to go elsewhere on the outskirts of town and they may not visit the downtown area.
To centralize groups and gathering seems like it would be real bonus for businesses that are
downtown. Bozeman does face parking issues, as Chris mentioned. He believes any
development should offer parking on their lot. Main street is growing east and west, but little in
the north and south areas. This proposed development would assist with growth in the north
downtown area. Having the garage next door to the hotel is a perfect match.
Ileana Indreland of Delaney and Co. spoke in representation of her tenants as well as her own
business. She stated that we need to keep this parking lot. Women are vulnerable, especially at
night and the lot is more convenient and feels less threatening than the garage. She likes the way
it is now and does not want to see that change for the convenience of customers and employees
both. She stated it would be responsible to do studies based on real numbers, actual data. Until
we have real data it is premature to replace this lot. Her tenants use this lot. She does support
the garage, but this is an important lot as well. Her building lost a lot of money during the
development of the garage. She feels the developer should reach out to properties from private
parties rather than take away the public parking. And, she feels we should get better data before
making this decision.
Mike Delany from Delany and Co stated he did some research of the past parking
commissioners and discussed how and why the commission had been established. The original
goal was basically to provide lots for people to park. We now have that. The last time this
commission decided to sell a property, it had bad circumstances. The houses that were
purchased were rented for a time and then when the commission was ready to demolish the
homes to create a lot on the south side, the City Commission refused to allow it. Those homes
were then sold them to private citizens who wished to continue to use them as a residence.
Approximately $400,000 was made on these home sales, and no parking spots were created. Big
Sky Western Bank since developed a nearby business that could have used that parking lot. He
stated other areas have also been developed that have taken away approximately 50 additional
spaces. He also mentioned the First Security Bank renovation and how that lot could have also
benefited them had it been created.
He feels that if it is the BPC's intention to take this parking lot away, they should have an
auction,just don't sell it to the first person who asks. Other people should have a chance to
purchase the lot and propose a development. And he mentioned the buy- local goal by the City
Commissioners.
Pam asked for further public comment, and there was none. She asked if there were written
comments. Paul stated that Michael Ochsner from Plonk wrote in favor of the development.
Steve Rodderick asked if Brit had passed on a copy of the letter from the law firm across from
the Carnegie lot? It was noted that they had not, as the letter had been addressed to the City
Commission.
Motion made by Ben L:" The Bozeman Parking Commission accepts the recommendation by
staff to recommend to the Bozeman City Commission that there is a higher and better economic
use than surface parking for the Carnegie Lot. This is due to the amount of available parking in
the vicinity of this lot, particularly at the Garage, which has the capacity to currently replace
these spaces. This lot is not needed to provide public parking."
Chris P seconded the motion.
Lisa stated that her concern is that even though this could create new jobs, etc.,that things seem
to be moving too quickly. She thought there should be more public meetings before a
recommendation be made.
She was reminded that the City Commission laid out this process on the May 2nd commission
meeting. Other public meetings have also already occurred. It was also stated that on June 13
there is another public meeting and then there would be two other public meetings after that.
Chris P thanked everyone who spoke. He finds this opportunity very interesting and wants to
move forward. But, he is carrying around trepidation. He agreed with Mike's point that you
can't go back on things. He reminded everyone that a private developer has come forward with
an offer to purchase a property that is not for sale. Without this offer, the BPC would not be
considering selling the property. There was no City solicitation for this offer. He feels the PBC
is compelled to look at the offer. The reason is in the interest for a healthy environment
downtown. This is an opportunity. We have to study things even without 100% data sets. He
also thinks we should entertain any offer. The city should be paid back fair market value or
more!
The future use needs to be extremely good for the economic future of the City. It also needs to
be from a qualified party. No, the Carnegie lot is not for sale, but its future use could benefit the
public in such a way that it should be considered.
Chris N acknowledged the conversations of nearby businesses that the sale is not a good idea,
but said the BPC needs to communicate to the City Commission that any sale revenue that is
made would go to additional parking in the future. Chris is also an advocate that a new building
plan show plans for underground parking. That is an expensive thing to do, but necessary. He
suggested someone should ask the developer: why this property? There are other opportunities
for this development downtown. He asked if we had to sell for 95% of appraised value?
Whoever the developer is, they will be held to a HIGH STANDARD. It needs to be the best
option built as possible. He does agree with possibly an auction or some type of fair public
process. He again reminded everyone that this would not be considered unless a development is
put to GREAT use. He thinks we should see if there is a developer out there that can bring good
use to that lot and stimulate the Bozeman economy. He does want to recontribute to parking and
supplying spaces again.
Chris N stated that out of the deep respect he holds in his position for the Downtown Bozeman
Partnership he will recues himself from the vote. Because of the things he has heard today. he
cares even more strongly for the people and businesses in the area. His reservations are: if this
property is determined by the City Commission that it has a better use, he asks that the
Commission and the community keep in mind the objectives of the Downtown Improvement
Plan and only do smart projects. There is other land available out there that a developer could
purchase. How would we best have the oppotrunity to see a higher and best use? There is only
one option and to not jump on the first thing. We need to get to a point and have time to think
hard and get the most assurance that it will be done to the benefit of the downtown community.
He feels a RFP would be the best way to do that.
Cyndy Andrus commented on the process. She wants everyone to know the die has NOT been
cast yet. This process will be fair and transparent. Great care will be taken into consideration
with the public. She cares about the public a great deal.
Pam stated there is a motion on the table. By approving the motion, all we are saying is that
there are replacement spaces available for this lot and that there could be a higher use for this lot.
By our approving or not approving the motion at this time allows the process to move forward.
All we can comment on today is the future of this lot and not the development requirements. We
need to separate the two.
Chris P asked if was appropriate for the BPC to take into the consideration and comment to the
City Commission at a future date if it were to become a hotel. He wants to hear a discussion
about understanding the maintenance of the parking downtown.
He wants a commitment to continue to solve parking issues. He wants any funds that are
received from the sale to go into the parking capital fund. It cannot be used for striping lots or
maintenance, but for creating future parking spaces.
Lisa stated that her difficulty in making a decision is not knowing if there will be a public bid
and hearing what other members if the public think. She wants to know if a hotel is built will it
just provide private parking for hotel and restaurant patrons. Can the general public use those
spaces?
Pam clarified the motion is about whether there is a greater benefit to the downtown area for this
lot than surface parking.
The vote was taken, Tammy Hauer, Ben Bennett, Ben Lloyd, Pam Bryan and Chris Pope all
voted in favor. Lisa Danzl-Scott voted against. Chris Naumann was abstained from the vote.
The motion was approved by a 5-lvote.
Pam announced a 5 minute break.
V. Action Item, Consider a new date for June BPC meeting.
Pam called the meeting back to order at 8:51 am. The June meeting was officially rescheduled
for June 1, 2011.
VI. Manager's report
The elevator fee was higher than expected. But it is now working.
Paul reported more graffiti at the garage.
The garage will be swept May 12th.
Paul is going to purchase a walls behind sweeper. He priced them out at approximately
$3,600.00.
Chris N suggested Paul talk to the folks in Billings because they have one too. Maybe he could
find one that would be a little cheaper or what they like or don't like about the one they have.
There were 600 courtesy tickets issued in the month of April.
The City Commission approved the contract with Big Look for advertising at the parking garage.
VII. Finance report
Paul presented the finance report to the BPC. He briefly noted that the budget is currently in the
black. The numbers are looking good.
VIII. New business
None.
IX. Adjournment
Pam adjourned the meeting at 9:00am.
Respectfully Submitted
Ashlie Portnell, Parking Clerk