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Home My WebLink About12-10-16 Public Comment - L. Lo Coco - Winter Street ConditionsFrom:Jeff Krauss To:Luna Lo Coco Cc:Agenda Subject:Re: Message to Streets Division Date:Saturday, December 10, 2016 7:55:41 AM Attachments:image001.png Thank you for your concern. Roads in Bozeman, Montana can and will be snowy and icy in the fall, winter, and spring, and occasionally in the summer. Please drive carefully at alltimes, matching the road conditions, in an appropriately equipped vehicle. Jeff Krauss On Dec 10, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Luna Lo Coco <mimblewimble42@gmail.com> wrote: John, I happened to notice that with the snow tonight, we have over 4 inches ofaccumulation and that none of the major side streets (Durston, College, Babcock, 25th, Oak, Baxter, Professional, Koch, etc) were plowed or sanded at all, and thatseveral of these intersections had people drifting, fishtailing, and sliding into intersections. I contacted both the Montana Highway Patrol (as per yourinstructions to me) about Main and 19th, as well as the Bozeman Police Department (as per instructions from the Streets Department voicemail) about thenon-highway city streets, and they said they would contact Streets Division/Department of Transportation. It is now 1:30 am and there are still noplows or sand on the streets, according to everyone I have personally spoken to this evening. The conditions now are even worse than they were earlier tonight,and it frightens me. I am scared about the safety of all of my friends and family, including my spouse who has to drive to work across town in these conditions. I'm wondering if maybe I misunderstood the conditions policy and if you couldexplain to me why the streets remain unplowed and unsanded despite the accumulating snow being over 4 inches. -Mx. Lu Lo Coco, a concerned citizen On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Luna Lo Coco <mimblewimble42@gmail.com>wrote: Do you normally respond so caustically to citizens like this? Your job is to keepthe roads safe, which you have clearly failed at. If you're upset that people are angry about the dangerous streets, maybe try doing a better job instead of takingit out on the people who rely on you for safe travel when they complain about the state of the roads. I noticed that the intersections are graveled, but the streetsstill aren't plowed, which I find interesting since that's the bare minimum required effort for the city not to get sued for slick intersection wrecks. If youwant to not have citizens complaining about the quality of the roads, maybe do more than the absolute bare minimum. I promise you that doing your job willget you a lot further than simply ordering someone to stop contacting you about the hazardous conditions of unplowed roads. On Dec 5, 2016 2:05 PM, "John Vandelinder" <JVandelinder@bozeman.net>wrote: Colorado and Michigan are two of the biggest salt users in the US. Again, we don’t use salt. The reason we don’t plow the streets before the snow sticks because there is nothing to plow. Waste of time to plow bare pavement. Again, you will have to call the Montana Department of Transportation why the all of the businesses on Main were blockaded by walls of ice last year. The City of Bozeman does not maintain Main Street MDT does. I would suggest before the people you talk to in Colorado move here, they should find out how we do things here and not expect us to change just because they moved here. If your confused and concerned friends want to go the City Commission budget meetings next spring and try to sell the idea of us switching to salt that would be the process. We will not switch to salt based on the only complaint I’ve received this year. Please, no more e-mails. If you want to better understand our operations come down and talk to us at 814 N. Bozeman. John Van Delinder Superintendent <image001.png> From: Luna Lo Coco [mailto:mimblewimble42@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 12:20 AM To: John Vandelinder <JVandelinder@BOZEMAN.NET> Subject: Re: Message to Streets Division I've lived in Michigan and Colorado, and I promise you their roads are muchsafer and are always clear; all of the other people I know and have talked to both in Colorado and from Colorado living here are completely taken abackwhen they find out that Bozeman doesn't shovel the streets until the snow starts sticking. They're usually very confused and concerned for the safety ofMontana roads, because in Colorado, the plows are out as soon as snow starts falling. I'm just curious, is all that stuff you just explained to me the reasonwhy all of the business driveways along main street were blockaded by walls of ice last winter? I'm just trying to understand how we can have one of thebest systems in the northwest, and yet everyone I've heard talk about the road conditions here are universally unhappy at the inefficiency of Bozemanplowing and the hazardous road conditions. On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 1:51 PM, John Vandelinder <JVandelinder@bozeman.net> wrote: No plowing on residential streets until 4”. Arterials and Collectors are sanded and plowed whenever there is snow present. Bozeman and Whitefish are the only cities in MT that even plow residential streets. Cour d’ Alene Idaho and Bozeman MT are the only cities in the northwest that plow residential streets without plowing in driveways. I disagree with you that it is irrational, hazardous or is frowned upon by anyone but you. I work with all the big cities in MT and they are envious of our program. I meet with Street Superintendents and Public Works Directors every year from Montana, Idaho and Wyoming and none of them do as much as we do. If you have an example of a snow or ice policy from the northwest that shows otherwise I would be more than happy to review it. If you have lived in the East or Midwest where salt is used you’ll never see bare pavement like that here. We also won’t have the environmental, fishery, automobile or structural damage that they experience with salt use. John Van Delinder Superintendent <image001.png> From: Luna Lo Coco [mailto:mimblewimble42@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 1:30 PM To: John Vandelinder <JVandelinder@BOZEMAN.NET> Subject: Re: Message to Streets Division So you're saying that until there is 4" of snow (snow, not ice) formed on the roads, you do nothing about it? You do realize that this policy is completelyirrational and hazardous and is frowned upon in every other city in Montana as well as all of the other snowy states? On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 7:44 AM, John Vandelinder<JVandelinder@bozeman.net> wrote: We had plows and sanders on the City streets starting at 4:00PM when the snow started sticking. We continued to sand and plow the routes until almost midnight then rested and came back out at 3AM and have been plowing and sanding since. The reason you never saw salt on the streets is that we don’t use salt in Bozeman. I can’t speak for the Montana Department of Transportation if they were out. They are responsible for Main St., N. 19th, N. Rouse, N. 7th and Valley Center. We plowed last year as we do every year in Bozeman. We do not plow residential streets until there is at least 4” of snow and then only after we get all the arterials and collectors done. You and your fellow citizens can give me a call at 582-3206 to discuss any concerns you may have. Hope this investigation was swift enough for you. John Van Delinder Superintendent <image001.png> From: mimblewimble42@gmail.com [mailto:mimblewimble42@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 11:27 PM To: Matthew Workman <Mworkman@BOZEMAN.NET>; John Vandelinder <JVandelinder@BOZEMAN.NET>; Michelle Dipzinski <MDipzinski@BOZEMAN.NET> Subject: Message to Streets Division StreetsContactUsID: 292 First Name: Lu Last Name: Lo Coco Email: mimblewimble42@gmail.com Phone Number: (406) 451-4830 Message: Hi, I'm a citizen of Bozeman, Montana, and we're currently inthe middle of a winter weather advisory; it started snowing in the early afternoon, well before sundown. As of 11:23 pm, there are still nosnowplows or salt out on the streets, and there are citizens out in pickup trucks plowing the streets themselves. I'm not sure what's going on withour tax money or why this is the second year in a row that the city of Bozeman isn't plowing any of the streets, but I am going to urge my fellow citizens to contact all branches of local and state government untilwe have safe and clear roads. I appreciate your swiftness in investigating this issue. Form inserted: 12/1/2016 11:25:56 PM Form updated: 12/1/2016 11:25:56 PM City of Bozeman emails are subject to the Right to Know provisions of Montana’s Constitution (Art. II, Sect. 9) and may be considered a “public record” pursuant to Title 2, Chpt. 6, Montana Code Annotated. As such, this email, its sender and receiver, and the contents may be available for public disclosure and will be retained pursuant to the City’s record retention policies. Emails that contain confidential information such as information related to individual privacy may be protected from disclosure under law. City of Bozeman emails are subject to the Right to Know provisions of Montana’s Constitution (Art. II, Sect. 9) and may be considered a “public record” pursuant to Title 2, Chpt. 6, Montana Code Annotated. As such, this email, its sender and receiver, and the contents may be available for public disclosure and will be retained pursuant to the City’s record retention policies. Emails that contain confidential information such as information related to individual privacy may be protected from disclosure under law. City of Bozeman emails are subject to the Right to Know provisions of Montana’s Constitution (Art. II, Sect. 9) and may be considered a “public record” pursuant to Title 2, Chpt. 6, Montana Code Annotated. As such, this email, its sender and receiver, and the contents may be available for public disclosure and will be retained pursuant to the City’s record retention policies. Emails that contain confidential information such as information related to individual privacy may be protected from disclosure under law.